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Ed Seykota's

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November 21-30, 2004

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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Tue, 30 Nov 2004


a-ha = uh-oh?

Suppose that two individuals are attracted to each other because they encourage or validate each others drama.

Now suppose that one individual experiences an a-ha and dissolves the drama that attracted him / her to his / her partner.

What are the consequences for the relationship, and what does this say about long-term relationships in general?

In other words - if drama is a component of all human relationships, and dramas are subject to becoming passing a-ha's, isn't it inevitable that all relationships become passing a-ha's as well?

Your insight is appreciated (as always).


If one person in a relationship dissolves co-dependence, and the other does not, they tend to separate and find appropriate partners.


People in relationships that commit to growth tend to support each other through transitions - their relationships become containers for passing AHA's.





Many Containers

all heading somewhere together.


Clip: http://www.columbia



Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004


Reactivating Poland

Please reactivate the Cracow Tribe.

Thank You.

OK. You are back on the Directory Page.

Mon, 29 Nov 2004


My Tango with TTP

I am a person who has maintained two identities for most of my life - the outer: socially interactive, “virginal” innocent who followed all rules and defined self by what I could do for others; and the inner: socially invisible slut / rebel who broke all rules and defined self by what was necessary for my own survival. The inner identity was aware of my link to the unifying life force (what I’ve called under Fred), although the majority of my hours has been spent so heavily identified with the outer self that this conscious connection to Life has been sorely neglected. It would pop out when needed in emergency situations: inform me that I was getting too close to the realm of total despair, shake me by the scruff of the neck until I backed away from resigned dedication to numbness, return to its dormancy to patiently await the next requisite emergency wake-up call. Then, in my early twenties, I started doing sweat lodges with Lakota and Ute elders and one itinerant, quirky cowboy writer/musician. My Source Connection started to take on a more tangible presence in my daily existence.

In my thirties I rolled up my sleeves, and earnestly started cleaning up the effluvium of generational family dysfunction. Suicide, mental illness, alcoholism, pedophilia and ritual abuse informed my early childhood development and left me much refuse to dredge through. Over the ensuing years I used about every tool I came across to help with the toxic-waste cleanup project: many forms of breath-work, shamanic soul retrieval sessions, vision quests, meditation, cranio-sacral therapy, silence in the Big Bend desert of Texas and a s----load of conventional psychotherapy. I went to grad school and became a family therapist.


I consciously sought balance in the emotional, physical, mental, spiritual and sexual intertwinings of my life. And I flowered in many ways. But my financial health stubbornly refused to show much progress. I have examined this issue over the last 15 years and the research process has made only small incremental shifts in my abundance level. I have been calling for an opening of the floodgates and in September of this year I met someone who embodied new information regarding the key to those gates [the leader of my local Tribe] ... his sponsorship of my entry into the TTP process (amongst other things) has constituted an answer to my call for a method for increasing my financial consciousness.

As a lifelong spiritual seeker and, more recently, a systems therapist, I have experienced and facilitated many forms of guided visualization and inner journeying for the purposes of healing old wounds and dancing into new inner and outer territory. The TTP was not an unfamiliar landscape. What was new and invigorating for me was the application of this process to my financial health. My wall around material abundance had been so impenetrable that I never conceived of applying familiar therapeutic techniques to this area of my life. The embedded disconnect between Fred and CM were just too powerful. But since doing the TTP I am feeling a wonderful shift underway: the insights coming from the process opened a brand new channel of dialogue in my interiors and the “AHA’s” are gently, pleasantly flowing in on almost a daily basis.

The process led me through feelings of terror, rage, abandonment, disgust, numbness and de-humanization that I experienced in one of the ritual ceremonies I was subjected to as a 3 year old. As we started the process, I had difficulty staying connected to my body. I had learned as a child that the easiest way to avoid experiencing discomfort was to escape the body altogether. In TTP, I began with a hard-shelled ball of dark, sticky substance in my abdomen. When encouraged to expand the feeling in my body, my torso disappeared altogether– it was replaced by a black void that simply seemed to open to the universe beyond, and it had these dangling appendages (arms, legs, head) somehow still attached to it. In this detached and transparent state, words were difficult to access and we realized that I was simply not in my body and was not connecting with sensation. When this condition became apparent, [Leader] would reflect to me that I was not in my body and he would invite my willingness to go back to the feeling state. After several cycles of going back and forth I was able to feel the emotions I listed earlier. One of the most informative threads I discovered is the feeling I call de-humanization. I experienced a state of dissolution; felt as if a cork had been unplugged at the base of my spine and all the internal substance from my body drained away. I felt it floating out into the space around me, leaving me ... nothingness. My verbalizations as that was registering in CM was incredulity that the people performing this act on me actually believed they were somehow operating on a non-entity. I could sense their absence from the moment, although they were certainly present in bodily form – they truly believed there was no consciousness present in my body as a witness to their behavior. I think I said something like “Don’t they know that I am watching this ghastly spectacle and that I will carry it with me always and use it later to fuel a mission designed to counteract the intent of their ceremony? Who do they think they are dealing with?” I felt indignant at their ignor-ance of my awareness at that time and felt the humiliation at their intrusion and their disrespect in violating the sanctity of my personal space.

The predominant theme that washed through me as I emerged from the experiential journey was the concept of self-value. I lost connection to feeling valued and worthy of love and abundance in life because of the forceful demonstration of the adults in that particular ceremony. CM had interpreted the event in this way: if the adults in charge of my care could let me be exposed to this nightmare, then I must not be of value to them. The messages crammed down the chute at that time were: “My needs and desires are inconsequential; irrelevant. Banish them all. I exist to serve others and do not exist outside of them and their agendas. I need nothing. I am nothing. I have no value or worth.” The emotions associated with this experience did not stop surfacing on the day of the process. They are still coming up, still cascading through over the last two weeks. When they come, I make allowance if I am in a safe place; if I am not, I wait until I am able to get to a space where I can allow full release. [Leader] remains available to me by phone when I need his help in processing. I am very grateful for his dedicated assistance.

Another realization emerging from TTP is that my chronic difficulty in noticing or allowing feelings stems often from the ease at which I disengage from my body. I’ve had a knack for maintaining daily operations while existing in a sort of daydream state of disconnect from the world around me. Over the years, I have allowed myself pleasure through orgasm, dancing and other forms of physical exercise in order to keep a thread of connection to my otherwise-numbed physical body. I haven’t needed chemical addictions for numbing myself because it simply happens naturally by allowing my childhood auto-disconnect function to operate. My body was flooded at a tender age by a chemical s---storm, and coped accordingly with the mostly pre-verbal tools it had at the time. When nudged by an uncomfortable thought or emotion it has, historically, been much easier to simply check out of my body than to sit with it and allow it full expression and release. Although I have done much emotional release work over the years, I knew there were blockages impeding my financial health. Since the many avenues I’d explored had not yielded satisfactory results in this one area, I knew I was looking for a new strategy – but didn’t know what it was. About the only type of therapeutic process I’ve heard about and haven’t experienced is EMDR. I decided to risk looking for something completely new and found [Leader] - and the gift of your lifework.

I have already begun to act differently as a result of TTP. Two days after my first session I went to the contract supervisor for the job I just started and noted that the project I’m coordinating involves a higher level of complexity and responsibility than I had been informed of and am being paid for. She agreed to re-negotiate my pay rate. This act was precipitated by my awareness of feeling constriction in my throat as I was driving to the job site. I labeled it as resentment and identified what was triggering it and what I needed to do about it. Previously my CM would have simply ignored the throat constriction. I would have continued doing and resenting the job and feeling undervalued for my contribution to the project. Now I am feeling energized in going to work on this difficult job because I feel joy in using my skills and contributing to a definable goal – and being appropriately compensated for my effort. There is no resentment lingering to sabotage my en-joy-ment of the challenge.

[Leader's] processing with me through TTP has allowed me to make major connections with how these internal mechanisms work and thus, how to allow more full consciousness to imbue the work with deeper flushing capacity. I am aware at how tender my abdomen feels when someone tells me “you could write a book about all of this in a couple of months and have a bestseller on your hands”. The thought of success at doing something I love (writing) brings up fear. I notice the fear, the constriction in my abdomen, and I feel the residues of anxiety the verbalization generates, and can smile at it, sincerely thank and embrace it for the protection it has given me all these years, and then let it float away. Anxiety, depression, numbness, obscurity – all of these kept me flying below the radar, kept me safe in my internal cocoon. I could not figure out how to remove them from my adult physical operational level. This simple, yet profound, process will continually help shift that for me.

I have been examining my habitual mental expectations and how they alter my access to financial opportunities in my life. The expectations around finances that I received from family mental maps include these: " we will always have just enough to get by", "abundant wealth is an attribute of elitist, oppressive and dictatorial authorities and is therefore evil", "nothing good is associated with financial wealth", " money is always in short supply and thus should be spent only when absolutely necessary". These traps plus the prohibitions ingrained through forced ritual ceremonies have combined to imbed ironclad boundaries around freedom of _expression and manifestation in my life. . The concept of a flourishing life did not exist because it was totally absent from my definition or experience of survival.

I see that the programmatic mandates from my family are about life being a struggle with very few redeeming or kind moments; money is only about survival rather than exuberant indulgence in life and its manifest pleasures in the material realm. And beyond the financial ... Joy seemed not to exist in my family. Love was an energy that was so heavily masked with treachery and mistrust that it was really only beautiful in fantasy or daydream. Love was a phantom. No easier than breathing underwater. I feel utter desolation at reading those two lines... I let my head fall into my hands and sink into that feeling ... It is a profound heaviness.

The quality of that heaviness of my internally lodged feelings is absolute dead solid inescapable freezing weight. That is the place where my expectations and judgments come from. Allowing abundance for myself entails the practice of relinquishing judgments and expectations and consciously setting my new frame of reference to be the state of relaxed, open receptivity to whatever is in my field of awareness at any given moment. This state of openness is to be grounded through intentions for abundance, balance and limitless joy and beauty in my life.

I am very grateful for having found this organization, its members and its tools for creating more conscious and intentional action in my life. I am not a trader currently as I have just found this organization and am still processing through the readings before I can intelligently begin. But I now joyfully commit to expanding my active participation in this process. I hold the thought that humans on this planet are co-creating an evolution revolution: we are letting go of the need for constrictive drama in relationship to Life in exchange for joyful and harmonious dancing with it. So may it be …

I am highly impressed with [Leader's] skill in facilitating this process. He automatically connects on a directly intuitive level and uses his voice to maximum effect, moderating the tone and pace of the session fluidly and seamlessly. (I would swear that he has done this professionally, as I have participated in numerous sessions of this type over the last 15 years and know an expert therapeutic facilitator when I encounter one.) He had a very gentle and relaxed manner in nudging me through resistant blockage points, just patiently inviting and encouraging me to allow myself through the portal – whatever it happened to be. Concurrently, he holds the TTP intent and focus with great care and integrity. I always felt safe and relaxed with him despite the fact that I have known him for only a short while (and despite the heavy-duty content of material that I was processing through).

I am very interested in the breath-work retreat that you have coming up. I am familiar with Stan (and Christina’s) work but have not done that particular “brand” of breath-work; have practiced 3 or 4 other rhythms that I had considerable success with in releasing trauma wounds. I don’t meet the stated qualifications for participation in your December retreat but thought I would ask if there are ever exceptions made. I felt drawn to it so thought I would ask, just in case …

I must say that, in my experience, it is possible to DIM. I have infrequent but wonderful spontaneous episodes of blockage release through intentional breath-work or conscious breathing in combination with orgasm. I agree that TTP is a predictably reliable process and I understand the need to prep participants with admonition about attempts to do the work on their own, but I felt my message to you would be incomplete without stating what is true for me, on occasion. I cultivate direct connection with Under-Fred and once in a while Life floods through me in brilliant, separation-shattering translucency and I have to claim that as contrary to the statement that the work can only be done with others present.

Lastly I want to thank you for your dedication to bringing seriously therapeutic release work to a wide audience. It is a very cunning way to “couch” therapy; your choice of what I call “languaging” around the process is quite effective and I particularly appreciate the tone of your humor. You continually model the “walk your talk” practice and that integrity level is refreshing. It evokes hope in me. You provide me with inspiration in this creation of an ongoing dialogue with people who are committed to changing consciousness. I bow in gratitude for your sharing of these gifts.

Thank you for sharing your story.  TTP is finding application outside the trading world.




The Wounded Healer


People who Learn

to dissolve their dramas

typically become excellent receivers



Clip: www.ywcaofcobb.org/ family.htm

Sun, 28 Nov 2004


Joining the Local Trading Tribe

Mr. Seykota,

I would like to receive information about joining the local trading tribe.

However, I have a few questions which I need answered before I can make an
informed decision as to whether or not there would be mutual benefit ...

When and where does the group meet?

What type of research is being referred to here? Purely numerical? Purely psychological? A combination of both?

What exactly is a receiver?

Other questions that immediately come to mind are:

Are there any fees to join or participate? Is there an expected income level? Is this an appropriate place for a quasi-beginner?

I am very grateful for any time you would spend to answer my questions.


See the Directory Page for information on joining a Tribe.  Consult the Glossary for terms like receiver.

Sun, 28 Nov 2004


TT Breathwork

Dear Sir,

I'm still waiting for Grof's book to arrive, which I've ordered immediately as soon as I see the breath work. Guess it's the holiday season delay. However, I've been thinking about it a lot, and I have a couple of questions though: how much is the breath work similar to your recent TTP work like half-a-yoga and polarity, and do you think we can go through those as well during the weekend? Many thanks!!!

The Breath Work Weekend is an extension of the work - not necessarily a review of the November Workshop.



Take My Breath Away

Lyrics by Jessica Simpson


Click to hear

Watching every motion in my foolish lover's game
On this endless ocean finally lovers know no shame
Turning and returning to some secret place inside
Watching in slow motion as you turn around and say

Take my breath away
Take my breath away

Watching I keep waiting still anticipating love
Never hesitating to become the fated ones
Turning and returning to some secret place to hide
Watching in slow motion as you turn to me and say

Take my breath away

Through the hourglass I saw you, in time you slipped away
When the mirror crashed I called you, and turned to hear you say
If only for today I am unafraid

Take my breath away
Take my breath away

Watching every motion in this foolish lover's game
Haunted by the notion somewhere there's a love in flames
Turning and returning to some secret place inside
Watching in slow motion as you turn to me and say

Take my breath away
My love, take my breath away

Sun, 28 Nov 2004



Dear Ed,

Last night I had a dream where I went to play basketball on a street court, and I saw some classmates from junior high school. My immediate thought was "Great" (as in happily seeing folks I know), but that died almost instantaneously and turned into a "Great, you guys won't even invite me to play together, even though you know I always want to play basketball."

They aren't that pleased to see me either, and do not appear to want to play with me. I ask one of them why they didn't let me know they'd come playing, and he gives me a very lame excuse. Deep down though, I know the answer already. I never really get along with them, and never really develop any close friendships with anyone. Not even the kind of brotherhood bonding (that one always sees in sports team) that I always idolize, but just a close friend to share secrets with or to talk to. And thus among the "sore spots" for me, this one probably ranks very high.

To be fair, most of my childhood I haven't been a likeable person, and probably even I would find it difficult to be friends with my old self. But I thought I have changed. I thought I have transformed myself. Why wouldn't you guys give me a chance?

I find myself hiding and weeping, asking myself repeatedly the question, "Why wouldn't you give me a chance?" I remember how a jerk I was one time when I played basketball, but now I understand that it's just a game, and I treasure more the friendship, the sportsmanship, the competitive spirit and the bonding. I just want to play and have fun. Why wouldn't you give me the chance? What do you need me to do to fully accept me?

And here's the amazing part - immediately I have the aha. The answer comes to my mind so naturally, as if it is so obvious that you don't even need to think one plus one is two. To have them fully accept me, I must first fully accept them, and that means accept them without reservations or judgment - which includes my judgment that they have judgment on me. When I am feeling grudgingly against them for excluding me, it just means I haven't fully accepted them. And if I haven't even fully accepted them, how can I expect them to fully accept me?

That is when I get half-awake. I make a conscious effort to remember this dream, the emotions, feelings and insights. I feel really great about it, for it feels that TTP is so natural in me, that it is a part of me, and I am flowing in it. I remember you once said in the FAQ, "One way to draw people closer is to respect their desire for distance." Again, thank you very much, Ed!!! I appreciate all the teachings you give me and the tremendous impact you have on me, even though you are probably unaware. Thank you wholeheartedly!!




In Basketball and in Life


not everyone plays

on every team.



Clip: http://www.banderaisd.net/





Sun, 28 Nov 2004


How Do I Join?

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm a beginner trader in Perth, Western Australia, is there a club in Perth that I can join?

If so can you please provide contact email address or contact number?

Consult the Directory Page for information on joining.

Sat, 27 Nov 2004


Breaking Free

Dear Ed:

When I put too much money into one stock or a stock begins to move against me, it feels like what Kryptonite does to Superman. I get irritable, my mind gets foggy and I feel weak and frozen. I fully experience the feelings and am able to quickly fix the situation.

The more I spread my risk the clearer I can think. I actually feel stronger even though in my head, I am still running a program that thinks I can make more by plowing money into one or 2 stocks.

I think I wanted to be free from my previous job so badly that I just was hoping to make one quick million dollar killing. Now that I am not at that job I seem to be following better risk parameters.

I would like to know how George Soros made such big bets and survived, however. If you could shed any insight, It may diminish my temptation to "Bet it all."

I make much more money, more consistently and am able to back out more easily when I Dip my toe in the water rather than Belly Flop!

I am not Superman, I accept that the stock I think is going to make me a bazillion dollars may go to Zero.

My portfolio is stronger (and more like Superman) by spreading the risk.

I am slowly and steadily learning and adjusting.



Clip: http://www.allposters.com/




You might take your urge to make a killing into the process.


Traders who survive, generally do so by managing their risk / equity ratio.  You might ask George for details about George.



George Soros


You have to watch

your risk / equity ratio


if you don't want to

lose your shirt.


Fri, 26 Nov 2004



Hello Mr. Seykota:

I am reading the book, Trend Following, and it is a fascinating read.

There are many co-incidences that run through this book that have been brushing the edges of my life.

For example: [Name] is quoted in this book speaking rather admirably about you. [He] is a close friend with a couple of friends of mine and cut his teeth at [Company] ... owned, prior to its sale to [Other Company], by a friend of mine, [Friend]. I live in [City] and [Friend] has a cottage here which he stays at for several months of the year. [Friend] also owns [Still another company]. I worked in [Place] for 6 months in 2001 and would visit with [Friend] regularly about the financial markets.

I have worked as an Investment Advisor for a large firm ... and now work as a venture capitalist as well as an I.R. consultant to start-up and small cap companies.

I have always been a trader at heart, although not as successful as the Trend Followers mentioned in the book.

I would love to become a student of the Trend Following system.

How would I go about becoming a student as such or apprentice from someone such as yourself or other successful Trend Followers.


You might start by reading this site and joining / starting a Tribe in your area.


Speaking of coincidences, every member of every Tribe has a birthday in the same year.



Yes, Earthling !


I, too, notice

that by some strange twist

of coincidence,

we both speak the same language.


Clip: http://plus.maths.org/issue4/





Wed, 24 Nov 2004


Here and there, this and that,

then and now

Ed -

[Name] mentioned in correspondence recently that he was working on a project to research moving average crossover systems.


The under-Fred must be at work - several days ago I posted to my web site a series of four columns I'd written for Futures Magazine in 1997 on this very topic (simple, exponential, MACD and how to reverse engineer them to find the crossover price ahead of time) so I sent them this link, and I thought you might find them interesting also:



It shouldn't be hard to see the effect of your teaching on my thinking in these articles.

Also linked on that page, by another under-Fredian slip, is the article I wrote to send with my resume to Futures magazine which helped to land the job ...

Your notice of intent to provide a Breathwork session in Incline evoked
a strong desire to drop my prior family commitments for that weekend and fly up there to breath that rarified air. I am especially excited by the hiking boot requirement. Unfortunately I don't get everything I want - my obligation to my "essential" tribe takes precedence - but I
wish you great success ... so you will be encouraged to schedule another one!

A few weeks ago I contacted a local Grof-certified facilitator in order to arrange a ... tribe breath-work session at her facility. Our tribe has gathered seven times now, and we both have experienced positive changes in relationships with our women and children since the bi-weekly TTP work commenced. My trading and confidence in my trading has been improving steadily as well, a virtuous cycle.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yourn,





Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past.

-- T.S. Eliot


Wed, 24 Nov 2004


Additional Thoughts on the Workshop

Dear Ed.,

After taking a couple weeks to integrate the workshop experience, I want to thank you again for an empowering experience. My trading methodology prior to the workshop was designed to avoid conflicts with Fred. e.g.

Don't like taking losses - get a high success rate

Don't like hanging there exposed to market fluctuations - take quick profits

It's a good methodology, (Natural Gas this week!) but I believe that just as there are "horses for courses" there are "methods for markets". The downside of that method is spending a lot of time on the outside looking in, and grabbing a few days out of a long trend.

Now I realize I don't have to placate Fred. By accepting feelings, and reaching the zero point, I can use a variety of methodologies, and achieving the positive benefits of trend following is something I can do as well.

My favorite line of the workshop:

"Clear simple thinking is not easy, but when you have it, everything is easy"

Thanks Ed


November 24, 2004

Request for Speaking Engagement

Mr. Ed Seykota
The Trading Tribe
Incline Village, NV

Dear Mr. Seykota

[We are]  is a Futures Commission Merchant in Chicago. Every year we host a ... conference for our clients. Our client base consists of Introducing Brokers throughout the United States. Your name has come up as a possible speaker for this event on the psychology of trading. We are always looking for new speakers that would benefit our clients. Please let me know if this is something that you would be interested in.

You might read over this site and let me know if you think it fits your program.

 Wed, 24 Nov 2004


Boston Herald Article, Research, TTP


I think you may find this article interesting:



It fits in with my research project of hedging
currency risk. I still need to narrow my focus on how to approach currency risk and how to effectively hedge it. I am thinking about taking the angle that assets should be denominated in the strongest currency as defined by a trend following model. In essence not necessarily hedging currency risk as much as denominating the assets in the strongest currency.

On another note, my parents are coming in this weekend and I have been talking to my dad about TTP. He said that he did something similar back in the late 1960's when he graduated from college that helped him work through some blocks. He is interested in any reading material and/or authors on the topic. If you have any suggestions, please pass them along.

My dad owns and operates a manufacturing and sales company that sells Quonset and straight-wall steel buildings (i.e. air plane hangars, warehouses, storage facilities, etc.). He has been in business for 33 years and he is running into executives that have become dead weight (they have made more money than they ever thought possible) and a sales force that works on the model 5% survival and 95% bullshit. I am sure this is no surprise. He is the industry leader and has been extremely successful, but not to the degree he thinks achievable.

An example of something he encounters a few times a year is when a salesman buy a new home. He says every time that happens that they are worthless for the next 4-6 months.

I think he would like to learn as much as possible about TTP and potentially work with a few of his salesmen on TTP.

Anyways, Happy Thanksgiving!


Tue, 23 Nov 2004


TTP Testimonial


Hi Mr. Seykota !

i've been working on a Power Point presentation for school this weekend. I spent hours and hours trying to figure out how to attach a video clip to a slide. I was totally frustrated. My dad suggested i visualize the whole project right in front of me and try to close my arms around it.

i did that. it was really hard to close my arms. I pushed and pushed, and finally did it, and felt a big release of tension.

Literally, the next web site I went to ten second later contained the solution. My presentation is now complete.

I LOVE TTP ! It is definitely the way to go!!!



The Power of Holding





Tue, 23 Nov 2004

Thanks Giving

Hi Ed

I hope you and your family have a happy Thanksgiving.

Thank you for your words of wisdom and encouragement over the years.

Thank you.  This a good season for noticing that Sending = Receiving.   

Tue, 23 Nov 2004



Dear Mr. Seykota,

I've been running a lot of simulations lately, and the more I run, the more I start to question the purpose.


It does give me somewhat of an idea what could happen, but bottom line I'm still running my strategy on a non-existent market (non-existent because it is in the past), and while the results can be phenomenally well, it still doesn't mean much for what I can do NOW. For example, I simulate a trading strategy based on EMA on the DJIA, and it performed extraordinary well from the 1900s to the late 90s, while not doing too well since the century turns.

Regardless of its performance (even if it is consistently well throughout the period and even assume I use in-sample data to optimize and out-of-sample data to verify), given our emphasis is in the NOW, how much value is there in a simulation backtest for the non-existing PAST?

Thanks for your insights.

You cannot perform simulations in the past. You can perform simulations in the now, on historical data that also exists now.


You can study history to gain experience about the kinds of things that continue to occur now.




You can't get past the present


If you are lucky, however

you can get Pasta Fazool


Clip: www.e-rcps.com/pasta/ rcp/soup/bean_pasta.shtml

Tue, 23 Nov 2004


Incline Village Trading Tribe Application

Hi Ed,

I apply for membership to the Incline Village Trading Tribe ...

I am willing to attend a workshop.

I am willing to conduct research on trading systems.

I am willing to report my experiences to FAQ.

I am willing to participate fully as a receiver.

I am willing to take the hot seat at every meeting.

Regular attendance is also essential.

Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Bush - Jay Leno

Click on the link or copy and paste it into your browser's address line.




Mon, 22 Nov 2004


TTP Works for Psychologists

Hi Ed:

We loved your presentation, as, from the feedback forms they gave us, did the participants. Participants consistently cited your presentation as their favorite. Your presentations entertain, individuals integrate, the group bonds.

We'd like to invite you to lead a half- or whole-day ... at our 6-Day Florida April 20-26 meeting.

Thank you.



Clip: www.offthemark.com/ psych/


Mon, 22 Nov 2004


A Couple of Interesting Sites

Hi Ed,

You might like to see this nose down attitude B-52 model takeoff.



Reminds me of a few trades.

Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Permission to Link

Can I put a link to your website at my own website?

I would like the opportunity of listing The Trading Tribe as a place where traders and future traders alike can gain the insights and knowledge necessary before launching into their next investment opportunity. I would also want with your permission want to post Donchian's 20 Trading Guides at my website.

God bless your business bigtime !



Mon, 22 Nov 2004


More Glossary

Ed -

As an exercise in better understanding, I re-arranged and edited the glossary items into a hierarchical outline context, where subordinate ideas and concepts are grouped within the superior concept, as indicated by right-ward indentation. The root concept is "Trading Tribe", and its peer anti-Tribe item is DIM.

It has been an interesting and illuminating exercise, which yielded a couple of things you might want to consider, below. I have attached PDF and html versions of the document. Please feel free to use this outline however you like.

+ there are two items for "right livelihood" which might be consolidated:

1) When Fred and CM communicate, Fred reduces the pressure on the feelings pump and drama melts away. Absent dramatic distraction, people align CM and Fred toward sharing their special gifts with focus and vigor.

2) living the Responsibility Model, and being willing to experience

+ I am not clear on the distinction between 'emotion' and 'sensation'.

+ I edited the text so that every occurrence of the word "this" is now followed by the word to which "this" refers. This change is a style point that was hard-coded in college and working as an editor at [Magazine] ...

+ each occurrence of a special word in the definitions is italicized, and might be hyper-linked to the definitions, as you have done in Glossary. If you would like to publish the html version on the site, I would be happy to create the links.

+ I added a definition for "thought" because each of the other component concepts of "form" is defined.


Nice job of grasping the concepts, extending the work and organizing it.  Your hierarchical outline now appears at the end of the Glossary Page.

Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Melbourne Tribe


I emailed a few weeks ago about starting a Melbourne, Australia Trading Tribe.


I have contacted my two peers in Adelaide and Sydney and would like your authority to commence.


Of course any support material would be welcome.





Melbourne !

You are on the Directory Page.

For support materials - read the web site. If possible, invite someone from an on-going Tribe to help you get up and running.





Clip: http://www.jccv.org.au/


Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Wants to Start a Tribe


I am a trader and interested in learning more about your Trading Tribe. That being said I am not really sure where to start, so I thought I would ask.


I have been trading for about 5 years now and professionally for the past three. I have always found trend following fascinating and developed some of my own methods mainly from ideas I picked up from your interview in Market Wizards (Donchian 5 & 20 ema crossover system) and other traders specifically Paul Tudor Jones.


I am the trader for a relatively small long / short equity hedge fund ($50 million under mgmt) and have helped integrate technical analysis into our process of what started out as a primarily "funnymental" shop.


I would like to take the next step in actively participating in the "tribe", but like I said, not sure what that entails. I would be willing to start a tribe in Richmond, VA. I look forward to hearing from you and thanks for your time!

See The Directory Page for instructions.

Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Feeling Childlike

Hi Ed

First off: Thanks!! I am just beginning to go through the material on the tribe site and it is really mind-blowing stuff.

As a first step in application I have tuned into Fred. When I have even a twinge of a feeling I focus my energy on it with my CM (the way a receiver might) in order to "satisfy" Fred's need to be heard.

It appears to work because this exercise brings about a very childlike feeling ... as if I am experiencing these feelings/situations (a form?) FOR THE FIRST TIME.

For example "I don't like that man" - "This makes me anxious" etc. etc. Even cooler - I recognize that I have a judge telling me these feelings are childlike (and therefore "wrong" to feel as an adult).

The best way I can describe this state of mind is childlike or animal - like or "pure" -- I also have another judge saying that it is "nuts" to be talking with this fellow named Fred in your own mind.

Amazing, amazing stuff ... and amazing how it is all linked.

My intuition is that using my own CM as "receiver" for my own Fred is perhaps dangerous (to the extent that the TTP can be) -- and might lead to more drama. Any advice or guidance in this regard?

Also - regarding SVOp - isn't Japanese a present tense only language?

Thanks again

CM naturally receives feelings that Fred pumps.  TTP facilitates this process.


Japanese combines present and future tenses.  For example, ikimasu can mean either “I go” or “I will go.”


Japanese has a special tense that indirectly conveys annoyance.  “My trading account was injured by the crude oil market.”  You might call it the “passive aggressive tense.”



A Good Teacher finds a way


to make the subject interesting



Clip: http://www.bigredhair.com/


Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Patent and Registration

Hi Ed,

Do you patent any of the ideas relating to Radial Momentum? I check up on you to make sure you receive credit for any extensions and applications of this theory.

I think about the Rubik's cube and karaoke machines:

I notice increasing page hits for the site - I wonder if transport, military, and plumbing companies are curious now ~


Radial Momentum is a theory to explain some phenomena in physics.


One of my goals is to get the San Francisco Exploratorium to change the explanation on their "Levitator" exhibit. 


The curator there tells me he "kind of agrees" with me and that he can't change it since that would go against a lot of conventional physics.

Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Philadelphia is In



I start the Philadelphia Tribe with your approval.

Thanks for everything.





Philadelphia !



In 1834,

the Philadelphia Stock Exchange


moves to the Merchants Exchange Building at Third and Walnut Streets.


Clip: http://www.phlx.com/exchange/


Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Notes on Ed Visiting Our Tribe


Hi ...

Thank you for the follow-up E-mail. Indeed, last night had been very useful for me as well. May be, there are blocks inside me that are not allowing me to be a good sender - but, I somehow still evolve "inside" my mind after every one of these sessions. It was also as if I have known you and Ed for a long long time - and, that destiny has preordained this meeting to happen.

I was so sleepy half-way through the drive that I had to pull over and wait for a few minutes before I could drive again. I got home about 4:30 AM.

I lost track of time myself and didn't realize that we now have established a new record. Warm regards,




Hi ...


I hope your late-night trip home was safe. Personally i got a lot out the meeting, locating some of my feelings and judges which I was only dimly aware of before, and out of your interaction with Ed.

We now hold the record for the longest meeting ever.





If You Have Blocks Inside

that inhibit your sending


send the blocks.




Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Notes on Ed Visiting San Jose

Hi Ed,

Thanks again for [helping me get to] the zero point last Thursday.

At the Zero Point everything is nothing.






is the Central Essence of Big Wheels


Clip: www.nearingzero.net/

Mon, 22 Nov 2004


Intentions & Resuls


Dear Mr. Seykota,

"Intentions=Results" has had a powerful impact and paradigm shift in my life.


Lately though, I've been pondering about this and would appreciate if you can give me your thoughts.


Say John and Mike both purchase lottery tickets on a regular basis (same amount, all numbers computer-generated), the fact that John wins and Mike doesn't - does it mean that John has a stronger intention to winning (or money) than Mike?

It seems to me they have identical background conditions, but one wins
and the other doesn't, and I wonder what role randomness plays in this

Thank you very much for your insights.

Events have no meaning other than the meaning you give them.


I=R does not work like some sort of  Body English for biasing random number generators in your favor.


I=R is a belief about two concepts (Intentions and Results) that supports TTP - by viewing drama as indications of dis-integrating forms.




Body English


is an attempt to stay in control

after you let go.


Clip: http://www.anyonefortee.com/


Mon, 22 Nov 2004


A TTP experience

Dear Ed,

Today, while I was receiving, I had this sudden impulse to take the hot seat next.


Out of nowhere I suddenly remember that you have suggested to me "taking your desire to complete things into the process" (Oct 21) and "exploring your feelings about wanting to go to completion" (Sep 16).


To be honest I wasn't quite sure what they mean. My guess is that it has to do with the feeling of "wanting" to complete but never do. For example, I have been thinking about what truly motivates me and what is my right livelihood for several weeks now. I really want to complete this search, but it just seems I never do (any suggestions?).


I seldom complete a book I start reading, a movie I start watching, or a trading system I start developing, and the list goes on. In any case, this issue came up to me today while I was receiving, and I decided to take it to the hot seat when it was my turn.

I explained the issue to my receivers and then I started to go with whatever feelings it came up. I question some of those feelings, wondering if I am artificially creating them, and if they really mean anything. But then I decide to take the leap of faith that they do mean something, and I don't know where they'll take me, but I just follow them and let whatever happens happen.


Despite that, I still remain very conscious, and I grow increasingly frustrated at my lack of progress and inability to get deeper into the process. It feels like a waste of time, not only mine but also my receivers', and I hate it. I am just upset that I am not able to take the process to completion. (Hmmmm, the feeling of wanting to complete things ...)

In fact, every part of my body becomes uneasy. It just seems every part of it feels so darn uncomfortable. I keep moving my whole body, changing postures, keep yanking my legs, keep moving aimlessly just because it doesn't feel right whatsoever!! Nothing feels right. It is the complete opposite of calmness and serenity.


It is like, if you don't feel comfortable with your clothes, with your pants, with your shoes, you can at least change to new clothes, new pants and new shoes. But if you just don't feel comfortable at every part of your body, inside your body, you can't just rip it out to change it. It's that frustrated!!! I hate this feeling. I've hated this feeling for a long time!!!!

That's when I ask myself, can I fully experience frustration? Perhaps this is it. But I hate this feeling!! Again, I ask myself to take this leap of faith, to trust this feeling that as long as I can fully experience it I can understand its positive intention.


Those are the exact words that I've learned - to the extent that I experience the feeling, I may get to its positive intention. Give it the benefit of doubts and imagine that there is a very good reason why this feeling exists, and the only way to understand is to be this feeling, once and for all.

I experience the frustration. It wasn't easy, but I did it. That frustration turns into pain. I am tensing my muscle to its limit that it feels painful. Yet I am enjoying this pain. Or more precisely, I am determined to stick with this (painful) feeling, and I actually enjoy this feeling of determination. Yes, commitment, determination, perseverance, the firm resolve, doing whatever it takes, never say die, never, never quit - these are all qualities that I lack, and which I desperately crave for.

I am very tired, in pain, but I keep going. It seems like training. It seems like I'm training for something. It's like cross country, where you're running and you're training especially for that last mile, when everyone's tired. I believe to be the best means we need to train for endurance, so that we can hang in there and finish the race. I believe the race is determined by who has the will to stick to it, to take one more step after another, no matter how much it hurts. And I want to be able to say, "Yeah if it hurts for me - it must hurt more to my competitors!!"

In the end, when the game is on the line, it isn't a matter of talent but simply who has the will power to hustle more. Who wants it more?

I crave for this spirit. And I taste it now. Tears start dropping. Tears of joy from winning a hard-fought battle.

Several months ago I told my tribe about my experience as I watched the Olympics. Back then there was a time when I had a sudden burst of tears when I saw the athletes crossing the finish line. I saw their tears of joy, and their expression told me how they've given their best, and how those years of hard-work finally paid off. And that is the exact feeling I have right there on the hot seat today. It is like I've finished a marathon. I have given it all. I am the winner. All the hard-work, all those pain, are totally worthwhile. It is so bittersweet. The tougher the training, the sweeter this moment. And the tears just keep running, and if feels sooooooooo good. I've fought so hard, I've gone through so much struggle, and now I'm finally here.

It feels grrrrreat!

But that isn't the end of it. My aha moment comes when I get to what I feel like before I was even born. (Remember what you say about me, regarding my C-section birth?) Somehow I get this feeling that I wanted to come to this world, that I fought so hard for the opportunity to get to this world, that it is either do or die now. (While on the hot seat I actually feel like the natural birth process where I am struggling, almost to the point of suffocating)

That's the feeling - I've fought so hard, I've gone through so much struggle, and now I'M FINALLY HERE. I'm finally here in this world. It feels grrrrreat!


With all these, it serves to remind me that I better treasure my time (or every now moments) that I have on earth, make sure I spend every moment wisely, fulfill my destiny and make it a trip worthwhile thus leaving absolutely no regrets (hmmm, regret ... funny that it is the exact issue I brought up in the May workshop, where I found its positive intention to be such that I do the right things NOW).

Wow, how powerful!! Thanks Ed!!!!!


Good Job !





keeps completing itself

as it evolves.


Clip: http://www.haileycityhall.org/




Sun, 21 Nov 2004


Warp Speed Trading


I'm am interested in an idea. am interested in what you think. day-trading operations are considering either closing or expanding. the divergence presents an opportunity to me ... i have been trading for four years, and have provided wins not only for myself, but for my friends. together, we will grow. can i tell you that i am a firm believer of beginning short term and expanding out to larger periods.






The Turbo Trader Power Chair



With Full Swivel Action

for a 360 degree view

of your entire array of monitors.


 Just the Thing

 for the Modern Day Trader

who wants to stay on top

of all the action.


The Mark V features a power ejector

so when you burn out

your clients can easily replace you

with an even faster, younger trader.


Clip: www.mts.com/ MAST/MAST_353.htm