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Ed Seykota's

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January 21 - 31, 2005

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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Mon, 31 Jan 2005


Risk, insufficient Capital, and Fishing

I was entertaining some thoughts about starting to trade futures and this mpeg arrived in my mail box illuminating insufficient capital.


click here




Hmmm ... seems a bit fishy to me.

Mon, 31 Jan 2005


Trading Tribe


Dear Mr. Seykota,


I have tried to contact the Adelaide Tribe without success. Please advise if there are other contacts in the city of Adelaide, South Australia.


I trade futures with a passion and have been doing it by myself for the past 10 years.


I took your advice from articles and read as many books on psychology and I have been trying to find a book by Martin Jaynes Evolution of Conscious Mind Bi Karmel State no such luck.


Could you please point me in the right direction with a source. I do not know of any other futures trader in Adelaide, I have spoken to a couple over the years from interstate but they have dropped out.


So there you have it,


I thought a bit of contact may help.

See the Tribe directory for a listing of active Tribes.


If you do not find a Tribe in your area, you can start one yourself.


You might try: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1976, 1990), by Princeton University psychologist Julian Jaynes.


The area opposite Wernicke's Bundle might support the Under Fred Network and Remote AHAs.





To speak a word that is heard, information must first get to the primary auditory cortex. The primary auditory cortex sends to the posterior speech area, including Wernicke's area. From Wernicke's area, information travels to Broca's area, then to the Primary Motor Cortex.


Clip: http://faculty.washington.edu/


Mon, 31 Jan 2005



Dear Ed,

Thank you for your reply to my email from Tue 01/04. And for your explanation.

If I gather investors whose total funds exceed 250,000 USD, figure out yearly maximum draw-down and uncle point for for the whole investment, can you accept such funds, trade them and divide the profits between you and the investing group?


I can deal with splitting the profits and losses among investors according to risk they are committed to.

I am reading a great book "Power vs. force" by David R. Hawkins. The book clarifies the evolution of consciousness. You are Power and I appreciate it.

Thank you for doing great work.

If you want to collect funds from others and place them with investment managers, you might do well to study the laws and regulations to make sure you stay well within their bounds.



Collecting Money is Fairly Easy


Honoring the contributors

requires skill, commitment and integrity.


Clip: http://www.fotosearch.com/


Mon, 31 Jan 2005


Finding Investment Managers


I would like to invest some of my retirement funds in a trend following investment company.


Can you give me any names of companies that would handle smaller investments?

Thanks for your website and any help.

At this point, FAQ does not endorse people or commercial products.


You can find lots of traders who claim to have systems and lots of traders who claim to follow their systems.


I am planning a certification program for traders who actually have trading systems - and who actually follow them.

Sun, 30 Jan 2005


Banjo Joke

Don't know if you have heard this one ...

Q: What is the least-used phrase in the English language?

A: "Is that the banjo player's Porsche?"

You can locate a banjo player's porch by following the sweet sound of live bluegrass.



Bluegrass Band


A banjo player

plus three wannabe

banjo players.


Clip: http://www.druid.net/darcy/coach.gif

Sun, 30 Jan 2005


Equity Curve

Dear Mr. Seykota

Thank you so much for your ongoing gift of the website - it is akin to a golfer's getting free lessons from Tiger Woods (whose recent breakout from a performance drawdown might be a good omen for investors?)

My question concerns 'trading the equity curve.' Many prominent trend followers, including [Famous Trading Coach Names], have recommended adding to trading levels when rigorously tested trend following systems are in a significant drawdown.


In my own computer testing with trend following systems (whose worst drawdowns over time are in the 30% range) performance is enhanced if trading levels are raised when the drawdown approaches this level (say 15-20%), especially when combined with a fall below zero in the 12-month Rolling Rate of Return.


Although historical data support such action, I worry that it might be counter-trend (in effect adding to losers), along with the danger of survivorship bias (adding to a system that no longer worked would of course be disastrous).


Do you have any thoughts of the subject (and its corollary of lightening up after a steep winning run).

Bottoms are a lot easier to see after they happen than while they are happening.


If you have a consistent way to add to trading levels during a drawdown, then you have a way to include the method into your system testing.


You might complete the idea of buying into equity curve drawdowns with a plan for cutting the loss in case the equity just keeps declining, arguably faster with a bigger position.




Some Coaches


Do not perform well on the field.


Clip: http://www.druid.net/darcy/coach.gif

Sun, 30 Jan 2005


The Remote AHA Effect

Hi Ed,

Thanks again for thinking of me to participate in the meeting, I enjoyed the


I believe your insight into the simultaneous release of tension when one party dissolves the issue has turned out to be true, as my daughter, who had been vaguely avoiding me for a couple of days, acted as if nothing had ever happened when I returned home!


Very Interesting.




Remote AHA


seems to be part of the workings

of the Under Fred Network.


Clip: http://www.remotecentral.com/


Sun, 30 Jan 2005


Testimonial for Book

I benefit from TTP by improving my feeling skills, practicing assertive communication and the attitude of letting go. In short, I cut frustrating situations short, hold the satisfying ones and live with the possibilities. I define it in a word: clarity.


Sat, 29 Jan 2005


Wants Endorsement

Dear Ed,

It is very generous of you to make yourself available to others.

In a nutshell, I was a proprietary, fundamentally-driven, long-biased U.S.
equities trader for about seven years ('94-01) at a small NYC asset mgmt. firm who, like many, made a pile of cash in the late '90s and then gave back much of it.


Although I always knew that the returns of this time would not last forever, I tried my best to aggressively make as much as I could while I could.


However, even during the best of dizzyingly-profitable stretches, I was always a nervous wreck, as I knew that below all the noise of the markets and the nonstop pontificating of the pundits on CNBC (not to mention your cab driver) I had no definable trading strategy, and that this would hurt me in the long haul.

Now, I have gotten myself to the point where I can confidently say that Trend Following and I are made for each other. I want to avoid making missteps in the remaining steps toward actually employing a system.


One obvious choice is [Name's] Trend Following course. Would you recommend this?


Have you heard of [Other Guy's] trading course? Is that one reputable? In other words, what would you recommend I do as a next step? I am eager to commit myself.

Many thanks for your attention. I look foreword to sharing my knowledge someday as you do.

FAQ does not endorse people or commercial products. See ground rules.


Sat, 29 Jan 2005


Seykota Workshops

I am very interested in the ideas put across on Ed's Website. I have a dual profession - working at [Brokerage House] and also I am a psychotherapist with a particular interest in the unconscious. Needless to say, the workshop seems like a great merge of two great interests of mine.

A few questions ...

Are there ever workshops that are more than just 1 1/2 days, and more affordable?
Once a workshop has been taken, is Ed available for any follow up guidance via email? If so, does he charge for this?

Are there workshops lined up for 2005? (I'm assuming the November one listed on the website was for 2004). 2006? Are they always in the same place, or does the location vary?

I appreciate your responses, and would love to venture into this arena as my trading skills are greatly lacking.


I lost hundreds of thousands of dollars several years ago - which I had carefully built up over 20 years. Now I have a small base to work with, more determination to learn - but am still making costly mistakes. It would be wonderful to feel more able to use my intelligence and inner resources to manage money effectively.

Watch this site for information on up-coming Workshops.


See Ground Rules Page for information on private consulting.


I am planning to announce a Workshop schedule, a Workshop Trainer Certification Program, a Trader Certification Program and a Book, all in March.

Sat, 29 Jan 2005




Please send me information about any upcoming seminars or training programs you will be offering for traders.

I announce Workshops on this site from time to time. The tentative dates for the next workshop in Reno are May 6 - 8, 2005.

Sat, 29 Jan 2005



Dear Ed,

"A great trader pointed out to me one day the importance of who you meet in your live. I met a genius who care so much about others and, his great insight change completely my live and my trading".
His name is Ed Seykota."


Fri, 28 Jan 2005


My First Hot Seat Experience

Hi Ed,

The Vancouver, B.C. tribe has the first meeting on January 7th.

After an initial period of introductions (check-in), we all agree to begin the Trading Tribe Process.

I choose to be on the hot seat.

I am on the hot seat for a total of 2 or 3 hours, but my conscious mind perceives that I am on the hot seat for less than an hour.

I start sending with my eyes closed and sitting in a relaxed upright position. After some initial questioning from the primary receiver, I notice that I feel hot in my upper torso and my hands. I feel my feet are cold. The receivers then ask me to amplify the heat and invite me to feel hot in my entire body including my feet. I “try” to make my feet hot but I cannot. I notice that my hands are still hot and are now sweating.

The receivers notice that I join my hands together repetitively. They then ask me to press my hands together tightly. I press them together and notice that they seem to be locked together. I say that I want to separate them. I try and I cannot. After some struggling I manage to separate my hands. I feel some release of tension (and I vaguely recall a passing AHA which I no longer remember now); I feel calm.

The receivers ask how I feel now. I notice that I am still hot in my upper torso and my feet are now hot too. My whole body is hot. I feel annoyed. I vacillate between feeling annoyed and frustrated. The receiver asks how I feel. I say that “I don’t know”. Another form appears: I repetitively tug at my shirtsleeves. So the receivers encourage me to tug at my shirtsleeves. I continue to tug at the sleeves. I tug and I tug and I tug. I ask the receivers “Can I stop now? I’m getting tired of tugging. I want to stop tugging.” I do not wait for a response; I stop tugging on the sleeves.

The receivers ask for my feelings now. I no longer feel hot in my body. I say that my stomach hurts. The receivers ask for me to clarify the feeling. I feel a solid, fiery lump in my stomach. I vacillate between feeling annoyed, uncertain and sad. When I feel sad, tears well up in my eyes and my nose starts to run. The receivers encourage me to stay with the sad feeling. I lower my chin to my chest. I am sad. I start crying with sobs and tears. I stay with the crying for a while; I suddenly have a realization (AHA) and then start laughing. (Now I don’t remember what that AHA is about.) I stop crying. I open my eyes.

Our tribe begins with the check-out and we discuss a few aspects about the process. We agree on a tentative date and time for the next meeting. I commit to attend the next meeting.

I wish that I have a transcript of the entire session to submit to FAQ. It is hard to “record” the entire session in my conscious mind (to relay to FAQ) when I am focused on my feelings and forms. I commit to continue the work of sending and receiving.

Many Tribes are able to complete Hot Seat processes in less than one hour.


Taking longer seems consistent with receivers asking distracting questions and otherwise engaging the sender intellectually.


You might consider training the receivers to limit communications with the sender to encouraging the somatic elements of the form.


I expect to have a Workbook for Training Senders and Receivers by March 31.

Fri, 28 Jan 2005



Chief Ed,

I ask that you consider accepting my sincere apology, for offending you.

You are a great teacher, and I deeply regret any offense.

You might consider taking your feelings of offending others into TTP as an entry point.



Dr. Seuss

risks offending people


by drawing cartoons

about appeasers.


Clip: http://medienkritik.typepad.com/


Fri, 28 Jan 2005


Intention and Positive Thinking

Dear Ed:

You seem to be weary of the possible results of positive thinking.


However, you write frequently about intention and the results that follow it.


Can you please decipher between positive thinking and intention in accordance with TTP.


Is the intention that you describe similar to the intention that Dr. Wayne Dwyer writes and lectures about?

Dividing your thinking into positive and negative implicitly places judgment on the "negative" ones.


Judgments tend to manifest as dramas.


Holding intention does not require  fractionating thoughts into positive and negative.


Wayne would be the authority on his writings; I suggest you direct your question about him to him.



Polarizing Life

into Positive and Negative


tends to entrain the negatives

into dramas.


Clip: http://www.punchstock.com/image/


Fri, 28 Jan 2005


Thinking about Feelings

Hello Ed,

I was thinking about experiencing your feelings and extrapolating their good intention.


Once you arrive at what you perceive to be the good intention of a feeling how can you be certain that this is indeed your feeling's intention?

Also, would Cognitive Behavioral Therapy mesh well with TTP and how much emphasis, if any, does the process depend on thought recognition? Thank you for your insight.

You might take your desire to be certain into TTP as an entry point.



Quantum Physics


is certainly one way

to certify uncertainty.


Clip: http://www.aip.org/history/


Thu, 27 Jan 2005


Down with Self-Esteem

Up with Self-Control & Self-Discipline

Here is an interesting article:

The Lowdown on High Self-Esteem
Thinking you're hot stuff isn't the promised cure-all.

By Roy F. Baumeister - January 25, 2005

Roy F. Baumeister, a professor in the department of psychology at Florida State University, is the author of "The Cultural Animal," just published by Oxford University Press.



Does low self-esteem lie at the root of all human suffering, failure and evil? When I ran my first research study on self-esteem in 1973, that certainly seemed to be the case. Psychologists everywhere were persuaded that if only we could help people to accept and love themselves more, their problems would gradually vanish and their lives would flourish. They would even treat each other better.

Not surprisingly, California led the way, establishing a task force for exploring ways to boost healthy self-esteem to solve personal and social problems. The task force members - like many of us - were undeterred by the weakness and ambiguity of the evidence suggesting a benefit in boosting self-esteem; we all believed the data would come along in good time.

Then-Assemblyman John Vasconcellos (and many other experts) predicted that self- esteem could solve, or at least help solve, such problems as crime, teen pregnancy, pollution, school failure and underachievement, drug abuse and domestic violence. (Vasconcellos even expressed the hope that higher self-esteem would one day help balance the state budget - a prospect predicated on the observation that people with high self-regard earn more than others and therefore pay more in taxes.)

A generation - and many millions of dollars - later, it turns out we may have been mistaken.


Five years ago, the American Psychological Society commissioned me and several other experts to wade with an open mind through the enormous amount of published research on the subject and to assess the benefits of high self-esteem.

Here are some of our disappointing findings. High self- esteem in schoolchildren does not produce better grades. (Actually, kids with high self-esteem do have slightly better grades in most studies, but that's because getting good grades leads to higher self-esteem, not the other way around.)


In fact, according to a study by Donald Forsyth at Virginia Commonwealth University, college students with mediocre grades who got regular self-esteem strokes from their professors ended up doing worse on final exams than students who were told to suck it up and try harder.

Self-esteem doesn't make adults perform better at their jobs either. Sure, people with high self-esteem rate their own performance better - even declaring themselves smarter and more attractive than their low self-esteem peers - but neither objective tests nor impartial raters can detect any difference in the quality of work.

Likewise, people with high self-esteem think they make better impressions, have stronger friendships and have better romantic lives than other people, but the data don't support their self-flattering views. If anything, people who love themselves too much sometimes annoy other people by their defensive or know-it-all attitudes. Self-esteem doesn't predict who will make a good leader, and some work (including that of psychologist Robert Hogan writing in the Harvard Business Review) has found humility rather than self-esteem to be a key trait of successful leaders.

It was widely believed that low self-esteem could be a cause of violence, but in reality violent individuals, groups and nations think very well of themselves. They turn violent toward others who fail to give them the inflated respect they think they deserve. Nor does high self-esteem deter people from becoming bullies, according to most of the studies that have been done; it is simply untrue that beneath the surface of every obnoxious bully is an unhappy, self-hating child in need of sympathy and praise.

High self-esteem doesn't prevent youngsters from cheating or stealing or experimenting with drugs and sex. (If anything, kids with high self-esteem may be more willing to try these things at a young age.)

There were a few areas where higher self-esteem seemed to bring some benefits. For instance, people with high self- esteem are generally happier and less depressed than others, though we can't quite prove that high self-esteem prevents depression or causes happiness. Young women with high self- esteem seem less susceptible to eating disorders. In some studies (though not all), people with high self-esteem bounce back from misfortune and trauma faster than others.

High self-esteem also promotes initiative. People who have it are more likely to speak up in a group, persist in the face of failure, resist other people's advice or pressure and strike up conversations with strangers. Of course, initiative can cut both ways: One study on bullying found that self-esteem was high among the bullies and among the people who intervened to resist them. Low self-esteem marked the victims of bullying.

In short, despite the enthusiastic embrace of self-esteem, we found that it conferred only two benefits. It feels good and it supports initiative. Those are nice, but they are far less than we had once hoped for, and it is very questionable whether they justify the effort and expense that schools, parents and therapists have put into raising self-esteem.

After all these years, I'm sorry to say, my recommendation is this: Forget about self-esteem and concentrate more on self-control and self-discipline.

Recent work suggests this would be good for the individual and good for society - and might even be able to fill some of those promises that self-esteem once made but could not keep.

I wonder how the good professor intends to implement more self-control and self-discipline.



Methods for Controlling Children

flow in and out of fashion.


Methods for empowering children

pretty much stay the same.


Clip: http://www.freedomparty.on.ca/



Thu, 27 Jan 2005


Testimonial for Book

Hi Ed,

I contributed proclamation #20 for the "2003 Review and Proclamation" section of your FAQ. I described my intention to enjoy a greater sense of peace in my life.


Through TTP, I increasingly enjoy this peace each day. Through the "hot seat" process I realize two actions that lead to a destruction of my peace: (1) Straying away from the moment of NOW by lingering on past mistakes, or bringing worries from the non-existent future to the present; and (2) trying to change people rather than accepting them without judgment.


Through TTP, I know that I must live in the NOW in everyday thought and action. Moreover I realize that my efforts to change people are ultimately attempts to make them more like me!

Resolving these two issues has led to  greater peace in all aspects of my life. Intention truly equals results!

P.S. I realize that TTP is a rather simple concept, once you get to the Aha! stage. It's all about being at peace with yourself and having total acceptance of who you are. Easier said than done, of course.

Thank you.  Look for the book to appear March 31.

Thu, 27 Jan 2005


The Responsibility Model and

The Private Property Rule

Dear Ed,

Is the Responsibility Model consistent with the Private Property Rule?


For let's say John takes away and uses his sister Mary's pen before asking for Mary's permission and subsequently loses the pen.


It seems to me that John violates PPR and so he is "at fault" because he "causes" the event, and so he is the one to blame and take responsibility for his wrongdoing.

But from the Responsibility Model, there is a larger complex network (e.g. where Mary places her pen, where Mary is at the moment John takes the pen, etc.), and that holds the responsibility for the event.

I like PPR, and at the same time my 2005 proclamation is Right Livelihood, which you define in the Glossary as living the Responsibility Model. I'd appreciate if you can elaborate how I can follow both without contradicting the other. Many thanks !!

You might take your desire to avoid contradiction into TTP as an entry point.



The Road to Wisdom


sometimes passes through paradox.


Clip: http://home.uchicago.edu/~avallino/




Thu, 27 Jan 2005


Freebie Rules




It seems that some people who visit your site are interested in [trading] rules, but are hesitant to pay for them.


I wonder what would happen if they ... [could afford] ... rules?

The Ten Commandments and other important sets of rules are "free."


Developing the character to follow them may require considerable investment and a support team.


Typically, people cannot afford to operate without rules.




Rules: Restriction or Support


Success in Relationship,

and success in trading


can depend on how you choose

to view the rules.



Clip: http://www.communityliving.org.uk/


Thu, 27 Jan 2005



Dear Sir,

We have two new members joining our tribe and last night was their first meeting. After it ended and I waited for the train, all of a sudden it hit me - I actually stick through things much longer, in a different way.

Remember one of my major issues is my inability to stick to things. During the Breathwork Weekend, I can't even make a measurable commitment that has a deadline, that I need you to help me make one: Commit to not making any commitment for the week, and every commitment I made I make sure I break them.

But what is surprising to me as I was pacing on the subway: most (if not all) people in my first tribe meeting (June 2003) have stopped TTP altogether, yet somehow I just stick to it and meet new people.

My job. My first one in fact. I've stayed with the same bank for over four and a half years now, long by Wall Street standard. Among the people in my group on my first day of work, only one person (the Managing Director) is still with the firm.

My fiancée. She's my first and only girlfriend, and we've been dating for almost nine (!) years now.


In many ways other than having a wedding itself, we feel more "married" than many of our friends who are actually married after dating for a year or two.

My stay in the United States. I have just received the official letter to do an interview in May so that I can become a US citizen. When I came to this country in 1993, I never thought I'd stay this long.

So as I look back at the major events in my life, surprisingly, I actually stick to things for quite long, much longer than I thought I would, and this is surprising to me because I always think that I have difficulty committing.

As I try to find out what these events have in common, even more surprisingly, or perhaps confusingly, the only commonality among all these things that I manage to stick to is that 1) I never thought about how long they would last when I started, and as such, 2) there is no particular end time in the first place, and so 3) there is really no commitment.


I know they may end some day (my girlfriend, my tenure at the firm, and even my consistent TTP participation), but those never really cross my mind. Perhaps as you said, the 'ending' is so far out there in the non-existent future that I don't even bother.

But now, I say it is confusing because it is counter-intuitive to my conscious mind. I thought the power of commitment is to have a clear deadline, that you consciously decide and proclaim that you want to achieve X and stick to it no matter what.


And when the deadline comes, you can choose to recommit if appropriate. But the actual result is, to the things that I actually stick to, I never really think of committing to them while failing so many times to the things that I've tried to commit to.

Now am I just "going with the flow" in those cases? Or am I just creating some excuse for myself to avoid making commitment? This is important for me and I truly appreciate your insights, sir.

Yes ... and in many ways, other than having a low score, golfers who play at a mediocre level for nine years can feel more "world class" than  pros who tour for a living.


You might take your commitment issues to your Tribe.



Get a Grip


Commitment is being there,

without reservation,

100%, in the now.


This works for parenting

and it works for trading.


Clip: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/





Thu, 27 Jan 2005


Hong Kong TT


I am interested to start a tribe in HK for the Greater China region.





Hong Kong !



Hong Kong


A remote protectorate

with little democracy, little regulation

and a 15% tax rate


can compete successfully

with most other systems.



Clip: http://www.mnstate.edu/chinese/


Wed, 26 Jan 2005


Fundamental Technology Prediction

Hi Ed

I found this video great food for thought regarding the 'media' going forward:


It takes 8 minutes to play, but I thought it was worth the time.

One good cure for the tendency to believe fundamental predictions: save the prediction and re-play it in about 10 years. 


The one study fundamentalists don't publish is, interestingly, the one for which they have access to the best information, namely:  a study of the accuracy of their own predictions.




Karl Marx


The Stature of the Economist

is typically a function

of the Spirit of the Times.



Clip: http://www.econ.duke.edu/


"The Warren J. Samuels Portrait Collection at Duke University."

Tue, 25 Jan 2005


TTP + Golf = 8 Birdies

I recently had the opportunity to share some of our tribe TTP work with a close friend of mine who is on the Nationwide Golf Tour.


Revealing that the feelings I run away from tend to run my life brought up many questions from my friend.


I told him about my hot seat experience where I was encouraged to really get into my feeling of sadness. 


How liberating it was to totally let myself go! I explained that once I reached the "zero point," where I totally exhausted the feeling of sadness, I felt that I had gotten to "the zone," where nothing could really knock me off my game. I had no judgments about myself, others, anything ... I was just there.


My friend thought this was pretty cool and he asked if it could be of help to him as he was struggling with his game. He was missing cuts by one or two shots each week and running out of money to play the tour.


I asked him what he was most afraid of and FAILURE was the first thing that came up. I then asked him if he could get into that somatic feeling of failure and describe it to me ... just the sensations, not the judgments about it.


I encouraged him to crank up those feelings of redness in the cheeks, sweaty palms, and the feeling to "go to the bathroom ..." I had him follow those feelings and sensations all around his body wherever they might lead him.


At first he resisted but eventually he got comfortable with these feelings. They weren't so bad after all. I am quite sure he did not get to the zero point, but he was more accepting of these sensations as they were his true self.


We did not mention anything about the golf swing (fundamentals be damned!) during this conversation. He was running out of time and had to leave for the course for his second round.


His first round score was 74 which put him in danger of missing another cut. He called me later that evening to report his lowest score of the year ... a 64 and he made the cut by one shot!


He started out poorly that afternoon, a couple bogeys in the first few holes, had those "bad" feelings of FAILURE come up and this time he just "experienced" them, and they passed through.


He didn't confront them, didn't run from them, just felt them as he did earlier in the day during our phone conversation. He then went about his bushiness and birdied eight more holes (par 70 course)! He made his best check of the year after a 3000 mile TTP session!

I thought this was pretty cool. I think you may be on to something here, Ed. Thanks for all your help.





 I Wonder Where Those Birdies Are


Clip: http://www.dbijen.dds.nl/jokes/



Tue, 25 Jan 2005

Trading Tribe Member Philosophy

Dear Sir,

I'm happy to report that, as I revisit the TTP page, I have fully accepted ALL of the trading tribe member philosophy as you've listed. Whereas when I started almost two years ago I have hesitancy about some of them (e.g. I believe in holistic evolution), I can now accept them quite easily, without struggle.

Accepting philosophy sounds more like DIM than TTP.


You might take your feeling of accepting philosophy, as a substitute for experiencing feelings,  to your Tribe as an entry point.



Flat Globe


Part of the Philosophy

of the Flat Earth Society



Clip: http://www.flat-earth.org/


Tue, 25 Jan 2005


More Morphing from Morpheus

see: Showing Off (Jan 9)

Dear Ed,

Your reply strikes me. Yes, it is clear to me now that the top three goals all seem to come from wanting to control (or I see it as wanting the person to change / become to an ideal I like)

However, isn't it necessary though? Just like you cannot have a meaningful conversation with an alcoholic or drug addict when he is drunk or dosed, we cannot assume an infant to make responsible and proper decisions.


An infant needs his parents' to make certain decisions for him (or 'control'??) in order to survive. For example, a parent needs to "control" his infant son when they walk across the street. He holds his hands and makes sure the son is on the side until they see the green light to go, and that all cars have stopped. If he just lets the son walk across without following traffic rules, the son may get knocked down by a car, right?

Gradually, the child assumes more and full responsibility in decision making for himself, and eventually ends up making decisions for his parents when they get old. I thought that's the life's cycle, isn't it?

So I am curious what's your take - would you recommend absolutely no "control" to a child and let him be as freely as he can be?


How much 'control' do you impose on your children? Is teaching a form of 'control' because in a way, the goal is to morph the other into the person you'd like them to be? Is it inevitable that any kind of relationship involves certain degree of conformation, whether we're aware or not? Many thanks, I truly appreciate your answers.

You might consider taking your parenting issues to your Tribe as an entry point.






One approach to molding children

is to assisting them

to discover and become

what they want to be.


Clip: http://www.itinysoft.com/


Mon, 24 Jan 2005


More TT Pee

Sorry Ed,

More (weird) questions. In my strange experience at night, I feel a strong urge to go to pee. But I know that the moment I get up, I effectively get rid of all those other feelings (cold numbness, heaviness, burning heat) that I want to fully experience.


So I stay with it, even with the feeling of really wanting to go to pee (it actually fits quite well because I am trying to experience a host of uncomfortable feeling). I remember you saying that wanting to use the bathroom is just another feeling, and sometimes it may indicate an intention to avoid the real feelings we're working on.

But here's the part I don't understand as I went through this last night. I think I fully understand the position intention of the feeling of wanting to pee - when your body has excess liquid poison, it is the signal to get you to get rid of them. (Just like when you feel thirsty, it is a signal to get some fluid into your body)


However, what I was doing effectively is to ignore that signal (because I don't want to lose the other "uncomfortable" feelings), and of course it gets even more intense, REALLY urging me to go, until I finally end up coming out of other feelings and go.

So here's the part I am confused. Let's say in a regular hot seat session, you are experiencing a lot of other feelings that you don't like, and working to resolve them to get to aha.


Then suddenly the feeling of wanting to go to the bathroom comes up. Do you intensify it by not letting yourself go, or do you go because that is how you "go with the flow" of your feelings. After all, whatever feeling that comes up is the exact feeling we need to feel, and when your body tells you that you need to pee, you have to pee otherwise ignoring that signal only makes the body intensifies more - to get rid of the refuse that your kidneys just can't hold anymore. But if you go, don't you fall into Fred's drama for you to avoid experiencing some really deep feelings? So as weird and awkward as it sounds for me an adult to ask, to pee or not to pee, that is the question ...

I have a hunch to include the feeling of wanting to go to the bathroom as another form and try to integrate it with the other feelings. That is what I tried to do last night, but perhaps my intention isn't strong enough (DIM too), I just get discouraged by your teasing, and end up going. By the time I come back, all the other feelings are gone and I just fall right back to sleep. Hmmm ...

Understanding is optional.


Your continuation with the DIM process continues to get DIM results.


You might have a look at what is standing between you and committing with your Tribe to get you through your feelings.

24 Jan 2005



Dear Sir,

Back in Apr 29, 2004 I wrote you about an experience I had regarding a sudden cramp while sleeping in the middle of the night. Last night, I had another very strange experience.

I am asleep when somehow I gain some mild consciousness. I still have my eyes closed but I notice that somehow I have my right arm above my head. It must be in that position for a while, because it starts feeling numb and heavy. Logically I think that it's because the arm is up there and the lack of blood circulation gives the numbness.

Well, that feeling evolves to a lot of other uncomfortable feeling. Some of it cold, some of it hot. The forearm that was numb is cold and heavy, but my right leg and the upper arm where it touches the forehead is burning hot. I am feeling some chest pain too. Oh, and I feel like I really want to pee. Overall, it is just a VERY uncomfortable feeling.

In my mind, I am thinking TTP. It has become second nature to me that anytime I find a feeling that I don't like, I want to experience it. Since I have committed to live in the responsive model, I strongly believe that it is no accident that I end up in such an awkward position and experience all these weird feelings. More importantly, I believe my sub-conscious (especially since I was sleeping) leads me to this, and I truly want to experience the feeling fully and get the message it contains.

I stay with that position, despite how uncomfortable it is. The arm becomes VERY heavy, the heat intensifies, the numbness becomes unbearable, and the chest pain is on and off. I can even hear my tribe members cheering for me to hang on, and I just stay with this pose without moving, even trying to get back to sleep just like that.

I know I can get rid of all these discomfort by simply moving my arms back to its normal position. But I feel that that would mean avoiding the feeling. So I just leave it as is. There is a moment I thought I am OK with the feeling, but then it (mixture of heat, numbness, cold, and heaviness at various places) intensifies, and I get back to "I don't really like this feeling," especially I really want to pee.

I remember during the Breath Work weekend you mention that even the feeling of wanting to pee is just a feeling, and if we can accept even that feeling. There is definitely a part inside me that wants to FULLY experience all the feelings to the point until I can accept them all. At some point I feel determined to do so, WHATEVER IT TAKES.

Well, that's when I get into resistance. I hear your voice, Ed. Remember during the Breathwork weekend, you raised questions to us on scenarios where it would make it REALLY difficult to truly honor our goals?


I hear your trying to see how far I can go. You use various methods to intensify the feeling, and I stick through it. I say I would stay with this feeling, and you ask how long. I say until I can come to terms with it, and you ask, "Really?" I say yes, and that I am going to sleep with it. Then you say that isn't accepting (but avoiding), and what if by the time I get up I still couldn't come to peace with this feeling?

And I guess that's when I stop this DIM TTP. I feel discouraged because I know I cannot stick to it WHATEVER IT TAKES.


I know I have to get up and go to work by a certain time. And I want to pee sooooooooo bad that I just get up and go to the bathroom.


I am worried if I can actually get off my bed and walk with my arms and legs crippled, but it turns out it isn't as severe as I thought and I am able to gain control of my limbs. I am sure I am not dreaming because I actually go to use the bathroom, and I am very fully aware of what happened.

So what's your thought on this strange experience?

You seem to enjoy the DIM process. You might consider really going with it and thinking your way to freedom.


In case you want to take these feelings to a tribe meeting, you might consider wearing a diaper and really letting yourself go.




Going With the Flow





Mon, 24 Jan 2005


Tidal Bore

I hope you will bear with me, and won't consider me a boor (or a bore) for pointing this out, but the tsunami picture [Dec 30 - What's Their Intentions ?], in which the wave has the appearance of an over-foaming beer, bearing down on hapless bystanders:

[According to Snopes (1), this] widely circulated picture of an Indian Ocean tsunami [is, in fact] ... a picture of a "tidal bore" from 2002:

"Tidal bores occur at predictable times, and watching these events is a four-day-long government-sponsored tourist festival in China, hence there were plenty of people and photographers on hand to observe the one captured in the pictures above.


Several news outlets in a variety of countries have been taken in by these photos and have run them as genuine pictures of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami."

(1) http://www.snopes.com/


Nice catch !


Thank you for bear-ing down on the em-bear-assing, a-bear-ant photo.


I wonder how Snopes explains how people with four-day advance notice, still get themselves in a position to incur the drenching of their lives.





The Bear News Network


presenting a first paw account

from the front of the wave.



Clip: http://www.exzooberance.com/



Mon, 24 Jan 2005


Fear to an Extreme

Hi Ed,

I was watching a horror movie called The Ring, and in it several characters were scared to death (literally) by a spirit who walked out of a television. Probably their heart beat races to beyond tolerable

Now it gets me to think, do those people die (or even ordinary people who witness traumatic events and go crazy) because they refuse to fully experience their feeling of fear and so CM and Fred fail to work together?


Or do they experience it to such an extreme that they die (or go crazy)? Or even, do they just intend to die (or go crazy)?

Thanks for your insights. I don't know why I have these kinds of weird thoughts.

I like the Hekyl and Jeckyl line; one of the incorrigible crows notes, "anything is possible in animated cartoons."


This principle might apply to most films.


FAQ does not attempt to answer "why" questions - even if they arrive as "because" questions.  See ground rules.



To Learn the Truth

about the Meaning of a Film


consult the director.



Clip: http://www.takotyko.com/


Mon, 24 Jan 2005


Princeton TT


Hi I would like to start up TT in Princeton, NJ.






New Jersey !




Albert Einstein


one of Princeton's

Most Famous Students


Notices that E = MC2


Equity = Method x Commitment 2



Clip: http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/


Sat, 22 Jan 2005


Difficulty Dealing with Medical Errors

Hi Ed,

Years ago, while pursuing my initial education in trading, I heard a speaker say that good traders should learn to "love your losses." I couldn't grasp that then, but have begun to understand the concept. I have mostly despised my losses.

I have been drawn to shorter term trading, even scalping off the floor, in an attempt to avoid "mistakes."


I have a tough time taking small losses repeatedly without getting discouraged, and have been on the receiving end of the fire hose too many times.

I share some writings concerning mistakes made by physicians and believe that they are common to many other professions and fields, and permeate our society. The need to be perfect is rampant. I guess that this is the basis for failures of many trading strategies, especially my own.

Your concept of going with uncomfortable feelings until they play themselves out,
just like a trend, during the tribe meetings is a powerful counterintuitive concept
for dealing with the emotional consequences of loss. As soon as I meet the
prerequisites, I will join my local tribe.

Strangely, there is no place for mistakes in modern medicine. Society has entrusted physicians with the burden of understanding and dealing with illness.


Although it is often said that "doctors are only human," technological wonders, the apparent precision of laboratory tests, and innovations that present tangible images of illness have in fact created an expectation of perfection.

And, although patients are the first and obvious victims of medical mistakes, doctors are wounded by the same errors: they are the second victims.

Virtually every practitioner knows the sickening realization of making a bad mistake. You feel singled out and exposed - seized by the instinct to see if anyone has noticed. You agonize about what to do, whether to tell anyone, what to say. Later, the event replays itself over and over in your mind. You question your competence but fear being discovered.

Sadly, the kind of unconditional sympathy and support that are really needed are rarely forthcoming.


While there is a norm of not criticizing, reassurance from colleagues is often grudging or qualified. One reason may be that learning of the failings of others allows physicians to divest their own past errors among the group, making them feel less exposed.


It has been suggested that the only way to face the guilt after a serious error is through confession, restitution, and absolution. But confession is discouraged, passively by the lack of appropriate forums for discussion, and sometimes actively by risk managers and hospital lawyers.


Further, there are no institutional mechanisms to aid the grieving process. In the absence of mechanisms for healing, physicians find dysfunctional ways to protect themselves. They often respond to their own mistakes with anger and projection of blame, and may act defensively or callously and blame or scold the patient or other members of the healthcare team. Distress escalates in the face of a malpractice suit. In the long run some physicians are deeply wounded, lose their nerve, burn out, or seek solace in alcohol or drugs. My observation is that this number includes some of our most reflective and sensitive colleagues, perhaps most susceptible to injury from their own mistakes.

I'll conclude with an assignment for the practicing doctor: think back to your last mistake that harmed a patient. Talk to a colleague about it. Notice your colleague's reactions, and your own. What helps? What makes it harder? Physicians will always make mistakes. The decisive factor will be how we handle them. Patient safety and physician welfare will be well served if we can be more honest about our mistakes to our patients, our colleagues, and ourselves.

One physician says it this way:

Painfully, almost unbelievably, we physicians are even less prepared to deal with our mistakes than the average lay person is. The climate of medical school and residency training, for example, makes it nearly impossible to confront emotional consequences of mistakes ... When a physician does make an important mistake, it is first whispered about in the halls as if it were a sin.



Client relations play a critical role in trading - and in medicine.


You might consider setting up a Tribe of about a half dozen practicing physicians.


I am willing to visit your group to help you get up and running.




Doctors Sometimes Operate


within unrealistic expectations

of perfection


from themselves

and from their clients.


The same goes for traders.


Clip: http://www.olesky.com/



Fri, 21 Jan 2005


What Two Should I Hold ?

Dear Mr. Seykota

I have been thinking about ranking currencies in a trading system. If one were to go long the euro vs the $ and long the peso vs the $, then apply their system to the euro vs peso which says for one to go long that, the trader would be better off being long the euro and not bother with the peso. If one were to take this idea to it's limits, applying cross rates to all futures products, it would be possible to come up with two contracts in which the trader should hold a long and short position.

I realize this is bordering on breaking the ground rules, so I didn't word it as a question

FAQ does not tell people what they should do.  See Ground Rules.


You might consider exploring your feelings about what you "should" do.


You can perform simulations to get a sense for ways to trade currencies, and / or lay off base currency risk.


Finding a mathematical balance between concentration, diversification, composite risk, volatility and return - does not address (1) longing for someone to tell you what you "should" do or (2) tendencies to dance along the border of breaking the rules.



You Can Usually Find

a way to get around the rules


even the ones that protect you.



Clip: http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/


Fri, 21 Jan 2005

More Bumping

Ed says:

The more you are willing to experience the feeling of bumping into walls, the less you have to bump into walls.

Dear Sir,

This is GREAT, thanks!!! It all makes sense now, and it feels great. I want to fully and willingly experience all those painful losses, and I intend to bring it to the hot seat at my local tribe.

Now here's a question, isn't it somewhat disappointing to know that as soon as I accept that feeling, that feeling dissipates?


I mean, it's like a person whom you hate, once you finally befriends him and accepts him fully, he just stops showing up in your life.


I find it sad, the loss of a true friend the moment you find this true friend. Am I misinterpreting something? What's your thoughts about it? Thanks.

Whatever feelings you experience tend to disappear, making room for others.


The joy you experience at the sight of a friend may quickly pass and make room for other feelings as you engage in conversation and play.


The disappearance of feelings does not disappear your friends.  It tends to draw them closer.





enjoy experiencing

and sharing feelings


Clip: http://www.cinar.com/



Fri, 21 Jan 2005


From Medicine to Trading

Dear Ed Seykota,

I have come to your email address through your TradingTribe site. I read about your amazing trading record through the "Market Wizards" book and am most impressed!

... I'm a 30 year old MD from London, UK. I've been getting more and more fascinated with trading and less interested in medicine. This has been leading me to find experienced people to learn from.

I too believe that a mechanical system can be applied to trading. The importance of a system that works cannot be emphasized enough! I'd like to find out more about your system - it clearly works. Do you teach it?

Medicine, like trading, is fairly mechanical and relies on applying systems.


In both, the emotional, subconscious and attitudinal parts are critical.




How You Perceive Yourself


can be as important

as the systems you use.



Clip: http://www.tardmo.com/talc/


Fri, 21 Jan 2005


An Awful Lot of Money

Dear Ed,

Thank you for responding to my email. I am honored to have corresponded with a trader of your caliber.


Anyway, I read your FAQ from Jan 4, 2005 and I am still completely interested in investing with you. I do have a couple of questions/clarifications though.


First, am I reading your FAQ correctly in that one must have at least $250,000 dollars in order to invest with you (or a net worth of 2.5 million)?


Because that is an awful lot of money, and significantly more than I could contribute. If that is not the case however, would you mind emailing me the specifics of what the minimum investment is, as well as, your fee structure. It would be greatly appreciated!


Also I was hoping that if I could open an account with you that I could contribute more money to it on a consistent basis -- i.e. yearly. Again I thank you for your time in reviewing my request.

You might consider how you might feel about losing "an awful lot of money."


To the extent you feel "awful",  you might abandon your system - or your trader.


You might consider keeping your trading small enough to keep your fear safely inside your envelope of comfort.



Trading Requires Skill


at reading the markets

and at managing your own anxieties


Clip: http://www.panicbuster.com/


Fri, 21 Jan 2005


Tribe Dynamics

Sat, 1 Jan 2005


Ed Says:

"Implementing TTP into existing social structures can be tricky - as people
may prefer preserving the existing structure to growing.

You might consider joining or forming a Tribe from relative strangers."

I notice that you frequently report this result about implementing TTP in existing social structures.


While I certainly agree that it is tricky, I nevertheless report that TTP with pre-existing social structures may work in some specific cases if the individuals are; 1) really committed to fully experiencing their feelings, 2) have an extraordinarily strong intention to achieve personal growth.

On the other hand, my experience is that some people just don't have the intention and commitment to stick to the process and experience their forms, and these folks seem to weed themselves out and avoid growth even if they are in a near-optimal tribe setting.

The moral of the story is: with a really strong commitment and intention, some powerful results seem to manifest even in non-optimal circumstances.


Alternatively, with a flimsy commitment and intention, poor results are likely even in near-optimal circumstances.



Social structures may contain people who operate at odds with community goals.


They may view the requirement for honesty as a threat.


Willingness to engage personal growth can be an indicator of who is really on the team.






of personal and organizational goals

points toward Right Livelihood



Clip: http://www.greenfeesavers.co.uk/