Nov 1 - 10, 2005
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from Ed in Red)
|Thu, 10 Nov 2005
Receiving an Angry Sender
Can you give some comments on the following situation and if the father can
better receive his son's feelings of hatred?
While I understand the importance of validating the other
person's feelings, is there a thing as overdoing it as to suggest that it's
OK to beat other people up even if that's what the sender feels?
How would you receive the son if you're in the father's
position? Thank you for your teachings.
Let's say the elder son and younger son don't quite get along. When the
father ask the elder one, "How do you feel about your brother?" He replies,
"I HATE him."
The father tries to validate the son's feeling, "OK, that's fine. Can you
HATE him even more?"
The son replies, "Of course! I hate everything about him. I don't want to
see him. I wish him dead. I hate him so much that I feel like I want to rip
him into pieces."
The father says, "Good. Rip him into pieces. See how that feels."
In TTP we encourage each other to
experience our feelings, not act them out.
Violence is often a form of acting out
that people do rather than experience their anger.
In this case, the Father, by saying "Rip
him ..." is leading and suggesting violence. He might try, instead,
validating and encouraging: "Good, stay with that feeling, get into that."
Experiencing the Feelings
of Wanting to Rip Off Someone's Head
leads to the Zero Point
Actually doing it
leads to jail.
|Wed, 09 Nov 2005
In 1990 I got sober at a little gem of a recovery center in Florida. I
learned some basic group dynamics that share origins with the system you
use. My life is saved because because of the lessons I carry from that
I am not certain of much, but I do know beyond any doubt that I am repeating
dramas that are not conquerable by me. I need a group. I search and find
nothing near where I live. It is time for me to start one. I would like to
use your materials and structure to do so. I am familiar with you because I
am studying trading. I will start trading down the road. I am hungry to
confront the internal judo that continues to flip me onto my back.
Please respond if you have any suggestions. I am looking to give and receive
and open up some spaces that are today knotted up.
To locate a Tribe in your area and/or
start one of your own, see the Tribe Directory, above
|Wed, 9 Nov 2005
Why Why Why
Ed and friends,
just a few serious questions:
1) what is life?
2) how come we ask ourselves why we live?
3) what is death?
4) what is after death?
ad1) is life an experience ...?
ad2) is there a point in not answering "why" questions ...?
ad3) is it figuring out something ...?
ad4) I hope that after death is exactly the same as before life ...
FAQ does not provide answers to why
questions. See Ground Rules.
Answers to existential questions tend to
be unique to the questioner.
If you want to answer why questions for
your self you might consider taking your feelings about them to your Tribe
as an entry point.
The Answers to Global Why Questions
often lies somewhere in the middle.
Wed, 9 Nov 2005
TTP Workshop Issues
In your workshop confirmation email (see below) you mention topics that
participants might like to explore.
My particular reasons for attending the workshop are as follows;
a) To gain some first hand experience in how to develop a tribe
(specifically our existing tribe here in [City]). Our tribe
spends a lot of time 'thinking & analyzing'. This stems from not really
knowing what we're doing. Therefore, I hope to learn 'How to use TTP' and
this includes most (dare I say ALL) of the topic items listed on the
Workshop page of your Website. Sounds like a lot to get through . . . Can
this be done over one weekend??
b) To experience the hotseat so, I may have the first hand experience of
what it feels like (rather than thinking I know what it feels like by
reading about it on FAQ or in 'the book' or by half-hearted attempts with our
tribe or at home by myself)
c) To gain some insights as to why I sabotage my trading. I find it
fascinating that I can write down on paper with THICK black text when I
will enter, what my stop will be & when I will exit, yet come the time to
act i don't do it. Why should this be so? . . . . . I think it may have
something to do with me - (he says, tongue-in-cheek)
That's about it for the moment
Thanks again & i look forward to meeting you & 'the team' in January
P.S. Item (a) above is one the main reasons I was hoping to also attend an
IV TTP meeting as an observer/participant after the workshop . . . if
possible that is.
I want to get as much TTP experience as I possibly can in the short time I'm
in the US as I believe this will greatly benefit our tribe here.
Please let me know if this can be done & if there is an IV meeting after the
workshop that I may be able to attend.
thanks again Ed
Yes, we typically handle issues a, b and
We have Tribe meetings on January 5
and January 19, from 2:00 PM until about midnight. You are welcome to
attend either / both.
Tue, 8 Nov 2005
The Lean 15
Here is a list of the (only) fifteen U.S. senators were who voted for Tom
Coburn's amendment seeking to shift the money for the Alaska "bridge to
nowhere" over to rebuilding the bridge over Lake Ponchartrain in Louisiana.
Yes, the trend toward bigger government
best thing about it
that we don't get as much of it
we pay for.
Tue, 8 Nov 2005
I make mention a number of times that we have some difficulty reaching
critical mass (many comings and goings) in the [City] tribe.
Our progress is
stop-start. We cross pollinate w/ the [Other City] tribe for about 3 mos.
The experience is great. They are a committed group. I travel to meetings
bi-weekly, and my flow rate increases accordingly.
I make slow but
consistent advances in untying k-nots. I have come a long way since
attending my first workshop in Reno a year ago.
Since last spring's workshop, a couple of IV tribe members write to
encourage me to come out for a Breathwork weekend. Both members cite it as
being highly effective - like TTP^2. I am intrigued, but do not commit to
come out. This past weekend we hold a one day Breathwork workshop. I know
now what I am missing.
My experience in Breathwork is blissful and pleasurable. I feel absolutely
great about it. In TTP, I generally find that I get into feelings that come
up from anger, frustration, fear and disappointment. In Breathwork, I just
concentrate on my breathing and my body and mind just go and have an
not feel like work, it feels like play. TTP now feels like work. Maybe I
need to take my feelings about work to the tribe (I really like to play)?
Also, I feel as though in my TTP experiences, I am working toward getting
things out of my system (untying k-nots) and revolving conflict.
seems so powerful, I sort of wish that my experience there is one where I
complete a feeling or untie a big k-not. Or perhaps I have? Can this happen
without there being some sort of trauma involved? Sometimes, I feel like
there is no progress unless there is an accompanying feeling of pain (ie no
pain, no gain).
I suppose I will just continue to let it take me where it takes me. Ed,
where I am today in terms of my trading and my happiness is due in no small
part to what I have learned in the Tribe, at the workshops and on the site.
It has all been for me like a springboard. What is truly encouraging though,
is that I am only now scratching the surface. It is damn nice of you to do
all of this.
Thanks for You,
TTP tends to compliment other
paths to personal growth, including Breathwork.
In particular, the practice of
accepting, embracing and experiencing feelings and seeking their positive
intentions tends to accelerate the completion of feelings that arise during Breathwork.
You might consider taking your
feelings about hard work to your Tribe as an entry point.
Mon 07 Nov 2005
I would like to register myself as a reviewer for
the workshop in January. I attended the May 05 workshop ... my wife wants to
come as a new student ... the last workshop did wonders for my trading and
Sun, 06 Nov 2005
Wants to Start a Tribe
Ed says on Mon, 24 Oct 2005:
I think your Fred is managing, very successfully, to get you into situations
where you can experience your anger.
I have given plenty of thought to your response about my Fred and my anger
and I think you are absolutely right about it. I have been placing my own
intentions in a second place and my family's ones in a first place.
My conclusion is that unlike a lawyer, doctor or even an engineer; a
business man does not require much of formal education other than knowing
and understanding himself, his feelings and of course his environment.
I believe the best master’s degree I can make about business is attending a
tribe meeting regularly in order to know myself better.
Since there is no tribe yet in [Country], I would like to open one in
Santiago with your permission. However, I bought your book but I do not know
if I have to travel somewhere to do some training.
If I am wrong with my above conclusion please let me know, remember I just
turned 24 last month.
For instructions on starting a
Tribe, see the Tribe Directory, above
Fri, 4 Nov 2005
Coin Toss Experiment
I programed coin toss experiment. I attached my results :-)
... code ...
int x = Rand.NextInt(0,2)
You might consider delving into your
Randomizer function to confirm it does not actually generate subtle patterns.
If Stock Prices Were Really Random
they wouldn't connect up day-to-day ...
they would appear as a mist
random points across the chart
Fri, 4 Nov 2005
Many thanks for all your wisdom and support. I read your story in "Market
Wizards" for at least ten years ago. I liked it and I still do.
stand for development and it's really just to jump up on the train to
benefit from it. I finished reading your book last week and that made up my
mind. I decided to start a tribe like you are suggesting.
It might be as
good as people say it is. If I am so happy about what you have done for me
even though I still mostly hide behind the DIM process, I really want to try
to do it the real way.
Lets walk the path to freedom and right livelihood. I'm
excited about what it will lead to. It's time to open up for relentless
validation in a more professional role than before.
I want to accomplish
personal growth by doing the work instead of only thinking about it. I also
want to help other people grow.
Thu, 3 Nov 2005
I take feelings that surface during the afternoon Snap Shot process into the
Hot Seat during the evening Tribe Meeting. The process manager asks
questions to determine what issues are hot and I state that several feeling
percolate form the afternoon session.
My hands begin to fling and move in a
circular motion almost concurrently. I get into several forms quickly, in
some my hands move in opposite directions, in others my entire body
stretches backwards, I breathe deep and then my mind goes blank. I feel my
body go back into a relaxed mode and then just lay still for a moment.
As I sit still and begin to breathe deeper I move into a crouched position.
Hands on head, torso bent over, elbows laying on knees, and I breath very
heavy. I begin to sweat and the pull my hair and then scratch my head almost
simultaneously. This goes on for a while. Then I begin to yell, in short
spurts, and then back to the crouched position, but this time with my hands
covering my face. I do this for several times. I sense I alternate between
the crouched position with my hands pulling my hair and then covering my
face, with spurts of hollering in between, several times throughout the
As I begin to yell, I get a mental image of what I label my gut section of
my mid torso area. I get a color 3D image of the inside area of my mid
section in my mind. As I breathe heavy the image seems to get more in focus
and bigger /closer. I feel myself breathing heavier and heavier. And then
bam, my mind kicks with sirens, red lights, and warning signals almost
screaming at me saying “WARNING, Do Not Hyperventilate!” and I get back into
the crouched position with hands on face once again.
The process manager continues to lead me and this process is repeated
several times. He then calls it quits after about the third time I do this.
In my check out I describe what I feel during my session. I’m clear that as
I follow the forms I get deeper into the image of my gut section, but at
some point I get the hyperventilating warnings from the mind.
In prior hot
seat sessions, I tend to stop to describe what I feel, sense or see, as I go
through my forms. For the current session, I focus on not doing the latter,
and it seems to work in that I get deeper into the forms, but not work in
that I don’t seem to go all the way to total release on the forms. Could I
The Tribe Chief describes to me that TTP is not medicine and requires a
trend in order to work. I must be the trend and trend towards change in my
life if in fact change is to occur in my life. The Chiefs’ sense is that I
quit and don’t go with the forms perhaps because I have a very deep k-not
from a childhood trauma that is deeply embedded.
The Chief recommends that I
begin my process the next time in a position of being stuck and/or in quit
mode. I think about the latter between NOW and my next tribe meeting.
Thank you Ed and my fellow Tribe members, your effort and support are
Thank you for sharing your process.
TTP Develops Willingness
does not cure unwillingness.
Clip: FAQ: April
Thu, 03 Nov 2005
Sir, if my starting equity is $10,000 and one open position in the
account. The stop is placed so $100 is at risk. The one position moves
in my favor and the account equity is $12,000, but the stop is not
moved. Is the total account risk still $100?
Risk is the uncertain possibility of
loss. If you could quantify risk exactly, it would no longer be risk.
If you wish to apply some risk metrics,
you might consider defining Entry Risk = $100 before and after - and Open
Risk = $100 before and $2,100 after.
Risk control has to do with your
willingness to allow your stop to do its job.
not so much in the situation
in your approach to it.
Wed, 2 Nov 2005
Trading Tribe in Houston
I hope all is well.
I read your interview in the
Market Wizard over a decade ago and was very impressed
by your intelligence and mind-blowing investing
performance and have been your fan ever since. I have
been visiting your website for sometime now and find
it very useful.
I am a trader with a good system but very poor
execution skills. I feel I am the kind of person who
can turn a winning system into a losing one because I
lack the discipline to trade all the system generated
signals. I have come to realize that TTP can help me
become a more disciplined trader and turn my fortunes
I have observed that there is no trading tribe group
in Houston which happens to be the fourth largest city
in the USA even though there is one in Mumbai, India
where I was born.
I would appreciate if you could advice me in how we
can start a trading tribe group in Houston.
See Tribe Directory, above.
Thu, 03 Nov 2005
I am writing to the fascinating piece of material about a cover of "The
Economist" that was in relation to the Nikkei. The dialogue between the
person who lodged this article and yourself seemed to share a sort of jargon
and understanding of the importance of magazine covers and their
significance to points within a trends.
Perhaps you could elaborate on this
concept of the significance of magazine covers? As there was some gaps in my
understanding just by piecing it together from your response to the
individual who posted the article.
Sometimes magazine covers discount major
trends with emotional images - around the ends of major trends.
The Nikki Economist cover shows little
emotion. The contributor points out that he sees fat tails (expects the trend to
Wed, 2 Nov 2005
Unconscious Processing of
Orientation and Color
I think the following articles might be of interest for you. The authors
describe an experiment, that demonstrates unconscious processing of visual
Tue, 01 Nov 2005
Just wondering ...
What are you feeling right now?
I am feeling your question and my own
Tue, 1 Nov 2005
TSP Exponential Crossover
Hi Mr. Seykota,
I just found your website, and started the project, so I'm a little behind,
but this is a great exercise!! Thanks so much for being so forthcoming with
So far, I have been able to duplicate the results for the
Exponential Crossover system [see TSP, above] to the penny using C++, and I'm about to start
working on the next project.
I have a general question about robustness, though. When you optimize a
trading system, do you optimize it individually for each market you trade,
or do you try to come up with a generalized optimization for all the markets
If you use the crossover system for example, would you use a different set
of optimized lag time constants for every market you trade (at the risk of
curve-fitting), or would you try to compute a single set of lag time
constants to use across all the markets to increase robustness?
Optimization algorithms follow subjective Bliss Functions, rather than from "the right way"
to do it.
There is no correct optimization method
any more than there is a correct car or a correct mate.
Choosing a Car
a Bliss Function
all emotional operations
Tue, 1 Nov 2005
I join the long list of people who thank you for your work and the website.
Both have been very helpful in my journey of understanding myself and my
I was working with the
[City] tribe for a while, but the weekly
schedule conflicted with my family, "the essential tribe". I am pleased to
report that I have made slow but steady progress. I am a better trader and
a better person
"Everyone gets what they want" is a very powerful concept.
I have successfully changed what I want regarding emotions. I now trade in
a very relaxed emotional state the vast majority of the time. It feels
I now want to change my profile/approach to the markets which I would
describe as a high hit ratio / high Sharpe ratio but lower return profile.
I want to move towards a much higher return profile accepting that my Sharpe will go down, std dev will increase.
I am committed, and know that actions = intentions, but still I am having a
knot over this. I have searched the site for earlier comments of yours
which might help, but did not find anything. Might you care to comment ?
FAQ does not or
offer specific trading advice,
recommend specific trading system parameters. See Ground Rules.