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Nov 1 - 10, 2005


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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Thu, 10 Nov 2005

Receiving an Angry Sender

Hi Ed,

Can you give some comments on the following situation and if the father can better receive his son's feelings of hatred?

While I understand the importance of validating the other person's feelings, is there a thing as overdoing it as to suggest that it's OK to beat other people up even if that's what the sender feels?

How would you receive the son if you're in the father's position? Thank you for your teachings.

Let's say the elder son and younger son don't quite get along. When the father ask the elder one, "How do you feel about your brother?" He replies, "I HATE him."

The father tries to validate the son's feeling, "OK, that's fine. Can you HATE him even more?"

The son replies, "Of course! I hate everything about him. I don't want to see him. I wish him dead. I hate him so much that I feel like I want to rip him into pieces."

The father says, "Good. Rip him into pieces. See how that feels."

In TTP we encourage each other to experience our feelings, not act them out.


Violence is often a form of acting out that people do rather than experience their anger.


In this case, the Father, by saying "Rip him ..." is leading and suggesting violence.  He might try, instead, validating and encouraging: "Good, stay with that feeling, get into that."



Experiencing the Feelings

of Wanting to Rip Off Someone's Head


leads to the Zero Point


Actually doing it

leads to jail.



Clip: http://www.allvisual.ca/web%20ready%20full/rip%20and%20head.jpg

Wed, 09 Nov 2005



In 1990 I got sober at a little gem of a recovery center in Florida. I learned some basic group dynamics that share origins with the system you use. My life is saved because because of the lessons I carry from that experience.

I am not certain of much, but I do know beyond any doubt that I am repeating dramas that are not conquerable by me. I need a group. I search and find nothing near where I live. It is time for me to start one. I would like to use your materials and structure to do so. I am familiar with you because I am studying trading. I will start trading down the road. I am hungry to confront the internal judo that continues to flip me onto my back.

Please respond if you have any suggestions. I am looking to give and receive and open up some spaces that are today knotted up.

Best Regards,

To locate a Tribe in your area and/or start one of your own, see the Tribe Directory, above

Wed, 9 Nov 2005

Why Why Why

Ed and friends,

just a few serious questions:

1) what is life?
2) how come we ask ourselves why we live?
3) what is death?
4) what is after death?

ad1) is life an experience ...?
ad2) is there a point in not answering "why" questions ...?
ad3) is it figuring out something ...?
ad4) I hope that after death is exactly the same as before life ...

FAQ does not provide answers to why questions.  See Ground Rules.


Answers to existential questions tend to be unique to the questioner.


If you want to answer why questions for your self you might consider taking your feelings about them to your Tribe as an entry point.





The Answers to Global Why Questions


often lies somewhere in the middle.



Clip: http://home.earthlink.net/~avolinch/



Wed, 9 Nov 2005


TTP Workshop Issues

Hi Ed,

In your workshop confirmation email (see below) you mention topics that participants might like to explore.

My particular reasons for attending the workshop are as follows;

a) To gain some first hand experience in how to develop a tribe (specifically our existing tribe here in [City]). Our tribe spends a lot of time 'thinking & analyzing'. This stems from not really knowing what we're doing. Therefore, I hope to learn 'How to use TTP' and this includes most (dare I say ALL) of the topic items listed on the Workshop page of your Website. Sounds like a lot to get through . . . Can this be done over one weekend??

b) To experience the hotseat so, I may have the first hand experience of what it feels like (rather than thinking I know what it feels like by reading about it on FAQ or in 'the book' or by half-hearted attempts with our tribe or at home by myself)

c) To gain some insights as to why I sabotage my trading. I find it fascinating that I can write down on paper with THICK black text when I will enter, what my stop will be & when I will exit, yet come the time to act i don't do it. Why should this be so? . . . . . I think it may have something to do with me - (he says, tongue-in-cheek)

That's about it for the moment

Thanks again & i look forward to meeting you & 'the team' in January

P.S. Item (a) above is one the main reasons I was hoping to also attend an IV TTP meeting as an observer/participant after the workshop . . . if possible that is.

I want to get as much TTP experience as I possibly can in the short time I'm in the US as I believe this will greatly benefit our tribe here.

Please let me know if this can be done & if there is an IV meeting after the workshop that I may be able to attend.

thanks again Ed

Yes, we typically handle issues a, b and c.


We have Tribe meetings on January 5 and January 19, from 2:00 PM until about midnight. You are welcome to attend either / both.


Tue, 8 Nov 2005


The Lean 15

Here is a list of the (only) fifteen U.S. senators were who voted for Tom Coburn's amendment seeking to shift the money for the Alaska "bridge to nowhere" over to rebuilding the bridge over Lake Ponchartrain in Louisiana.

Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bayh (D-IN)
Burr (R-NC)
Coburn (R-OK)

Conrad (D-ND)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (R-SC)

Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Sununu (R-NH)
Vitter (R-LA)

Yes, the trend toward bigger government seems intact.



Big Government


The best thing about it

is that we don't get as much of it

as we pay for.


Clip: http://home.earthlink.net/~avolinch/



Tue, 8 Nov 2005



Hi Ed,

I make mention a number of times that we have some difficulty reaching critical mass (many comings and goings) in the [City] tribe.


Our progress is stop-start. We cross pollinate w/ the [Other City] tribe for about 3 mos. The experience is great. They are a committed group. I travel to meetings bi-weekly, and my flow rate increases accordingly.


I make slow but consistent advances in untying k-nots. I have come a long way since attending my first workshop in Reno a year ago.

Since last spring's workshop, a couple of IV tribe members write to encourage me to come out for a Breathwork weekend. Both members cite it as being highly effective - like TTP^2. I am intrigued, but do not commit to come out. This past weekend we hold a one day Breathwork workshop. I know now what I am missing.

My experience in Breathwork is blissful and pleasurable. I feel absolutely great about it. In TTP, I generally find that I get into feelings that come up from anger, frustration, fear and disappointment. In Breathwork, I just concentrate on my breathing and my body and mind just go and have an absolute blast.


Breathwork does not feel like work, it feels like play. TTP now feels like work. Maybe I need to take my feelings about work to the tribe (I really like to play)?
Also, I feel as though in my TTP experiences, I am working toward getting things out of my system (untying k-nots) and revolving conflict.


As Breathwork seems so powerful, I sort of wish that my experience there is one where I complete a feeling or untie a big k-not. Or perhaps I have? Can this happen without there being some sort of trauma involved? Sometimes, I feel like there is no progress unless there is an accompanying feeling of pain (ie no pain, no gain).

I suppose I will just continue to let it take me where it takes me. Ed, where I am today in terms of my trading and my happiness is due in no small part to what I have learned in the Tribe, at the workshops and on the site. It has all been for me like a springboard. What is truly encouraging though, is that I am only now scratching the surface. It is damn nice of you to do all of this.

Thanks for You,

TTP tends to compliment other paths to personal growth, including Breathwork.


In particular, the practice of accepting, embracing and experiencing feelings and seeking their positive intentions tends to accelerate the completion of feelings that arise during Breathwork.


You might consider taking your feelings about hard work to your Tribe as an entry point.



Hard Work


can be fun.


Clip: http://www.spincitybikes.com/


Mon 07 Nov 2005


Enrolling the Essential Tribe

I would like to register myself as a reviewer for the workshop in January. I attended the May 05 workshop ... my wife wants to come as a new student ... the last workshop did wonders for my trading and my life.

Excellent !

Sun, 06 Nov 2005


Wants to Start a Tribe

Ed says on Mon, 24 Oct 2005:

I think your Fred is managing, very successfully, to get you into situations where you can experience your anger.

Hi Eduardo:

I have given plenty of thought to your response about my Fred and my anger and I think you are absolutely right about it. I have been placing my own intentions in a second place and my family's ones in a first place.

My conclusion is that unlike a lawyer, doctor or even an engineer; a business man does not require much of formal education other than knowing and understanding himself, his feelings and of course his environment.

I believe the best master’s degree I can make about business is attending a tribe meeting regularly in order to know myself better.

Since there is no tribe yet in [Country], I would like to open one in Santiago with your permission. However, I bought your book but I do not know if I have to travel somewhere to do some training.

If I am wrong with my above conclusion please let me know, remember I just turned 24 last month.

For instructions on starting a Tribe, see the Tribe Directory, above

Fri, 4 Nov 2005


Coin Toss Experiment

I programed coin toss experiment. I attached my results :-)

... code ...
int x = Rand.NextInt(0,2)


You might consider delving into your Randomizer function to confirm it does not actually generate subtle patterns.




If Stock Prices Were Really Random


they wouldn't connect up day-to-day ...





... they would appear as a mist

of random points across the chart










Fri, 4 Nov 2005



Hi Ed!

Many thanks for all your wisdom and support. I read your story in "Market Wizards" for at least ten years ago. I liked it and I still do.


You really stand for development and it's really just to jump up on the train to benefit from it. I finished reading your book last week and that made up my mind. I decided to start a tribe like you are suggesting.


It might be as good as people say it is. If I am so happy about what you have done for me even though I still mostly hide behind the DIM process, I really want to try to do it the real way.


Lets walk the path to freedom and right livelihood. I'm excited about what it will lead to. It's time to open up for relentless validation in a more professional role than before.


I want to accomplish personal growth by doing the work instead of only thinking about it. I also want to help other people grow.









Thu, 3 Nov 2005



I take feelings that surface during the afternoon Snap Shot process into the Hot Seat during the evening Tribe Meeting. The process manager asks questions to determine what issues are hot and I state that several feeling percolate form the afternoon session.


My hands begin to fling and move in a circular motion almost concurrently. I get into several forms quickly, in some my hands move in opposite directions, in others my entire body stretches backwards, I breathe deep and then my mind goes blank. I feel my body go back into a relaxed mode and then just lay still for a moment.

As I sit still and begin to breathe deeper I move into a crouched position. Hands on head, torso bent over, elbows laying on knees, and I breath very heavy. I begin to sweat and the pull my hair and then scratch my head almost simultaneously. This goes on for a while. Then I begin to yell, in short spurts, and then back to the crouched position, but this time with my hands covering my face. I do this for several times. I sense I alternate between the crouched position with my hands pulling my hair and then covering my face, with spurts of hollering in between, several times throughout the session.

As I begin to yell, I get a mental image of what I label my gut section of my mid torso area. I get a color 3D image of the inside area of my mid section in my mind. As I breathe heavy the image seems to get more in focus and bigger /closer. I feel myself breathing heavier and heavier. And then bam, my mind kicks with sirens, red lights, and warning signals almost screaming at me saying “WARNING, Do Not Hyperventilate!” and I get back into the crouched position with hands on face once again.

The process manager continues to lead me and this process is repeated several times. He then calls it quits after about the third time I do this.


In my check out I describe what I feel during my session. I’m clear that as I follow the forms I get deeper into the image of my gut section, but at some point I get the hyperventilating warnings from the mind.


In prior hot seat sessions, I tend to stop to describe what I feel, sense or see, as I go through my forms. For the current session, I focus on not doing the latter, and it seems to work in that I get deeper into the forms, but not work in that I don’t seem to go all the way to total release on the forms. Could I be stuck?

The Tribe Chief describes to me that TTP is not medicine and requires a trend in order to work. I must be the trend and trend towards change in my life if in fact change is to occur in my life. The Chiefs’ sense is that I quit and don’t go with the forms perhaps because I have a very deep k-not from a childhood trauma that is deeply embedded.


The Chief recommends that I begin my process the next time in a position of being stuck and/or in quit mode. I think about the latter between NOW and my next tribe meeting.

Thank you Ed and my fellow Tribe members, your effort and support are greatly appreciated.

Thank you for sharing your process.





TTP Develops Willingness


It does not cure unwillingness.



Clip: FAQ: April 9, 2004

Thu, 03 Nov 2005


Risk Metrics

Sir, if my starting equity is $10,000 and one open position in the account. The stop is placed so $100 is at risk. The one position moves in my favor and the account equity is $12,000, but the stop is not moved. Is the total account risk still $100?

Risk is the uncertain possibility of loss.  If you could quantify risk exactly, it would no longer be risk.


If you wish to apply some risk metrics, you might consider defining Entry Risk = $100 before and after - and Open Risk = $100 before and $2,100 after.


Risk control has to do with your willingness to allow your stop to do its job.






is not so much in the situation


as in your approach to it.



Clip: www.joerod.com/ archives/Danger.php

Wed, 2 Nov 2005


Trading Tribe in Houston

Dear Ed:

I hope all is well.


I read your interview in the Market Wizard over a decade ago and was very impressed by your intelligence and mind-blowing investing performance and have been your fan ever since. I have been visiting your website for sometime now and find it very useful.

I am a trader with a good system but very poor execution skills. I feel I am the kind of person who can turn a winning system into a losing one because I lack the discipline to trade all the system generated signals. I have come to realize that TTP can help me become a more disciplined trader and turn my fortunes around.

I have observed that there is no trading tribe group in Houston which happens to be the fourth largest city in the USA even though there is one in Mumbai, India where I was born.

I would appreciate if you could advice me in how we can start a trading tribe group in Houston.

See Tribe Directory, above.

Thu, 03 Nov 2005


Magazine Covers

Dear Ed,

I am writing to the fascinating piece of material about a cover of "The Economist" that was in relation to the Nikkei. The dialogue between the person who lodged this article and yourself seemed to share a sort of jargon and understanding of the importance of magazine covers and their significance to points within a trends.


Perhaps you could elaborate on this concept of the significance of magazine covers? As there was some gaps in my understanding just by piecing it together from your response to the individual who posted the article.

Much appreciated,

Sometimes magazine covers discount major trends with emotional images - around the ends of major trends.


The Nikki Economist cover shows little emotion.  The contributor points out that he sees fat tails (expects the trend to continue).





See Fat Tails

Wed, 2 Nov 2005


Unconscious Processing of Orientation and Color

without Primary Visual Cortex

Dear Ed,

I think the following articles might be of interest for you. The authors describe an experiment, that demonstrates unconscious processing of visual




mensch/0,1518,382764,00.html  (German


Tue, 01 Nov 2005



Just wondering ...

What are you feeling right now?

I am feeling your question and my own wonder.

Tue, 1 Nov 2005


TSP Exponential Crossover Success

Hi Mr. Seykota,

I just found your website, and started the project, so I'm a little behind, but this is a great exercise!! Thanks so much for being so forthcoming with your expertise.


So far, I have been able to duplicate the results for the Exponential Crossover system [see TSP, above] to the penny using C++, and I'm about to start working on the next project.

I have a general question about robustness, though. When you optimize a trading system, do you optimize it individually for each market you trade, or do you try to come up with a generalized optimization for all the markets you trade?

If you use the crossover system for example, would you use a different set of optimized lag time constants for every market you trade (at the risk of curve-fitting), or would you try to compute a single set of lag time constants to use across all the markets to increase robustness?

Thanks again!!

Optimization algorithms follow subjective Bliss Functions, rather than from "the right way" to do it.


There is no correct optimization method any more than there is a correct car or a correct mate.



Choosing a Car


or a mate


or a Bliss Function


are all emotional operations



Clip: http://delunari.ubbihp.com.br/brit%20na%20porta%20do%20car.jpg  

Tue, 1 Nov 2005


Wants Higher Returns


I join the long list of people who thank you for your work and the website. Both have been very helpful in my journey of understanding myself and my trading.


I was working with the [City] tribe for a while, but the weekly schedule conflicted with my family, "the essential tribe". I am pleased to report that I have made slow but steady progress. I am a better trader and a better person

"Everyone gets what they want" is a very powerful concept.

I have successfully changed what I want regarding emotions. I now trade in a very relaxed emotional state the vast majority of the time. It feels great !!

I now want to change my profile/approach to the markets which I would describe as a high hit ratio / high Sharpe ratio but lower return profile.

I want to move towards a much higher return profile accepting that my Sharpe will go down, std dev will increase.

I am committed, and know that actions = intentions, but still I am having a knot over this. I have searched the site for earlier comments of yours which might help, but did not find anything. Might you care to comment ?

FAQ does not or offer specific trading advice,

or recommend specific trading system parameters.  See Ground Rules.