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Oct 11 - 20, 2005


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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Thu, 20 Oct 2005


Hotseat Beating

Dear Ed,

At this weeks meeting,

security guards from the CBOT thought someone was receiving a beating.

Another great meeting.

The pits might be a good place to conduct Tribe meetings.






Patterns We Learn Early in Life


seem to repeat

in various ways


Clip: http://briem.ismennt.is/4/4.3b/4.3.1.


Thu, 20 Oct 2005



Dear Ed,

the last CIty] Tribe meeting on Tuesday was very interesting. On the hotseat I initially talked about how it is difficult for me to handle profit give-backs or missing opportunities (whereas I have no problems with realizing losses), how I anchor at my equity maximum value and experience every move down from it as a loss.


I explained that I want to suffer for some reason and how angry I was about it. When I started to show forms, I was screaming furiously and hitting my thigh with my left fist and stomping with my left foot. But during experiencing these form, the screaming suddenly changes and I start shouting: "I deserve it."


My fist is not hitting anymore but both fists are up in the air in a winner pose. I feel happy and relieved shouting "I deserve it!". I feel that I do not have to suffer to be successful but that I deserve to be successful, period. In a moment of clarity I feel that I always have to suffer to be successful because some judge tells me if you do not suffer, you have not deserved it.


And suddenly I see that this is crap. When we are raised we hear about the original sin (ok, only if you are raised in a Catholic environment) and how all the great men had to go through great suffering before they were successful or happy or whatever. But suddenly I see that I don't need all of that. I just can be successful. I deserve it, I don't have to suffer.

During the next round I also start saying: "always do what the others expect from you" on and on and raising my index finger like a blaming schoolmaster. But the word also change into "b---s---, b---s--- b---s---". Again a judge (the same?) telling me that others are watching me, that I have to fulfill expectations that I have to work harder (and I guess suffering is again not far away).

For me this was the best hotseat experience so far. I do not know what is the next step. Can I learn to accept the judge as someone who wants to keep me on my toes but decline to suffer for anything that is part of life and trading?

As for the new [City] tribe, so far I am not even receiving spam in mailbox. But there are a few people that have some interest. Let's see where our combined Freds take us.

All the best,

Thank you for sharing your process.




Judgment May Feel Different


depending if it arrives as an imposition.

from outside


or bubbles up from within.



Clip: http://www.instituteofcustomerservice.com/res/


Wed, 19 Oct 2005


Tribe Meeting Report


Hello Ed,

I arrive at incline Village and settle in for the snap shot process. As my turn comes up I feel pretty good about my current snapshot and the progress I make since the last meeting, I’m anxious to present to the group as I feel things are moving in the right direction for me.

Snapshot Process

As I begin my report I have confidence that my fellow members will see the improvement since the last session and I feel pretty good about my presentation. My snap shot, entitled “Sticking to My System” encompasses me taking 20 trades generated from my trading systems without hesitation or reservation, just stick to my system. Fourteen of the 20 trades are complete. I grade myself accordingly and present an overview of my progress to the tribe.

Feedback from the tribe is insightful and brings feelings bubbling from the mid-torso area up to the upper chest area. Two of my fellow tribe members call me on my system and conclude, based on my presentation, that I don’t have a system. Since in my mind I’m convinced I have a system and I follow it for 14 of 20 trades, the feeling pump goes full throttle and nutso as I listen to the feedback. I get an “I don’t think so” response from one member in specific and he mentions that he does not believe I have a system at all, this comment stays in my mind for the remainder of the session.

What I hear from my tribe members is that I may believe that I have a system in place but in fact what I consider to be a system is not what two successfully consistent traders in the tribe consider to be an industrial strength type trading system.


Also, I hear that I have no accountability for my trades since I cannot articulate an objective audit process for my trading system. Wow, talking about being frank, my tribe members are very frank indeed, in fact, something I now like a lot about the tribe - brutal honesty. The level of honesty the tribe provides certainly cuts through the BS objections/excuses that float in my mind and keep my feelings bottled inside. I Love this stuff, I’m growing and it feels great!

After the snap shot process I commit to myself to work through and embrace the feelings that come up as I consider the feedback. As I work trough the feelings I come to the realization that my tribe is correct. I don’t have a trading system; I have an entry system with subjective stops and exits and at best a “whatever I want it to look like” audit process.

I think about the latter for a couple of days after the meeting and conclude that a complete mechanical trading system, with embedded audit process, is what I put in place to move onto the next level of successful trading. I commit to myself to do the latter.

Tribe Meeting

We have a full house for this tribe meeting, largest gathering since I joined. Lots of energy flow as we go through the drumming at the beginning of the meeting, we get a good flow as the drums subside. All of the participants indicate they want to take the hot seat, the process begins and I settle in as a receiver. Good sessions all around and then comes my turn.

I take the mid-torso feelings from snapshot into the hot seat. This time I get right into the feelings, no thinking, just going with feelings. I have some great amount of feelings as I fling, jump, stomp, kick, reach, and yell around the room. I really don’t recall the forms as I go through them I just let my mind go, and go with the flow.


One form comes clear to me, it’s me taking what looks like a reverse shower process, I begin at my toes and pull up feelings from my toes all the way up to behind my head and then toss the feelings out of my mouth. I go through that form at lease twice. Also, for this session I find myself yelling like mad, deep down yells, from the bottom of my belly yells, they feel Tony-the-Tiger GR-R-REAT!. I sweat rant, kick and swing more and more, I just repeat over and over until I’m at zero point, a sense of clam, tranquility and peace of mind take over my entire body, it feels sacred.

In past sessions I have a tendency to think about the process I go through it and I visualize lots of stuff, faces, animation, cartoons, construction projects, all sorts of stuff. The process manager instructs me to just let go of the thoughts and go with the forms to really get into the feelings. I feel, for the first time, I do just that, and I really fell a much more focused and centered at the zero point this time around. This is progress on my part as I continue on my path of personal growth, fulfilling stuff!

Next I get my shot as a process manager for the first time; it proves to be a strong learning experience. I process manage a gentleman that is cross pollinating from another tribe. He is great to work with as he has several hot, live issues. I quickly learn that the best way to begin the process is to get the sender into his/her forms quickly and then with gentle guidance let he sender find, develop and express the forms. Overall the tribe meeting was long and grueling, but at the end of it, even while feeling totally spent, it feels just plain good.

One thing I did take away and is important to note for me is that the more work I do, the more things I find that need work. Also, I notice since like the second or third Tribe session I attend, that solutions / answers for things I work on just seem to flow into my mind. For instance, I find myself talking with people and literally saying out loud solutions / answers to what I think about and/or work on. Powerful stuff this Tribe process, really powerful!

Thank you Ed and my fellow Tribe members, your effort and support are greatly appreciated.

Thank you for sharing your process.






Another opportunity to go with the flow



Clip: http://usa.hudsonreed.com/brand_1/


Wed, 19 Oct 2005


Trade Timing

Hi Ed,

What do you think about this statement:

When the S&P500 is above its 50-Day Moving Average, it's time to go long.

When the S&P500 is below its 50-Day Moving Average, it's time to go short.

When the S&P500 is equal to its 50-Day Moving Average, do nothing.

Thank you very much for your highly educational site.

Prices are either above or below their historical averages mostly always, only exactly at their averages for fleeting instants.


If you keep going long while the S&P is above its 50-day MA, you soon wind up with all the contracts.


If you have questions about a trading signal (such as a crossover method issues) you can test them in the context of a full trading system.  See TSP above.





Some think of it as an interval,

others think of it as a point.


No one can prove

it exists at all.



Clip: http://www.zengifts.com/images/clock.jpg

Tue, 18 Oct 2005


Report from [City] Tribe

Hi Ed,

Hope all is well. I want to share yesterday's meeting of the [City] Tribe, which I think is our best ever (seems to be a trend for us).

My Hot seat is very intense, I bring some commitment issues with my girlfriend to the meeting. I start by pushing my hands away from my body, the tribe does a great job supporting me. I go through a few forms without really getting to the bottom of things until I am aware of a tingling sensation similar which is very familiar to me from the breath work we do three weeks ago.


The Process Manager does a great job facilitating the process, after I experience the tingling for a while he encourages me to try the movement with my arms again. This time my arms start pushing both hands above my head. My tribe thinks I am selling something in the pit, but I really feel like I am serving in a tennis match (I play tennis for a big part of my youth).


I morph into just swinging one arm over my head, faster and faster. Finally I start swinging down more and more towards the ground as if I am beating something and then I get my insight: I am my dad beating the s--- out of me.


I don't have a conscious memory of this ever happening but I am intending to ask my mom about it. I keep going with the beating, after a short break The Process Manager encourages me to really get into the feelings of being my dad and beating me.


I feel very relaxed and sit down. I integrate the feelings about my commitment issue and the beating and have a strong urge to vomit,  I experience that feeling several times and try to stay with the maximum pressure point in my chest (where I feel I am about to vomit) for as long as possible, my tribe encourages me to take it all the way. Finally I feel a great release and am totally calm. I sink into my chair sweaty and exhausted.


The Process Mnager asks me about my relationship with my girlfriend and I realize that it is not really about her. I don't feel resentful or mad at my dad. I feel almost sad for him. I feel I just integrate and accept a big part of my childhood I am not previously aware of. Thank you to my tribe for your great support.

I feel other members have a great session as well. One tribe member takes his issue with his girlfriend into the tribe and really goes for it. In my eyes yesterday is his best session so far. I am also very happy and excited for another tribe member who usually has a hard time getting into his feelings and is creating drama for the tribe. After our breath work he seems to get more into his feelings.

Thanks to my tribe and to you Ed, for all you do. Your work makes a big difference in my life.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Acting out Anger on Children

(rather than experiencing it internally)


can tie them in k-nots.



Clip: http://www.redcross.ca/article.asp?id=003544&tid=030

Mon, 17 Oct 2005


Hotseat Follow-Up

Hi Ed,

I hope you are well. My hotseat experience


Our last tribe meeting consisted of a marathon session in which each of us took the hotseat.


I expected an intense meeting to follow in light of an unusually intense drumming session. As we began, I felt some feeling of anxiety in my stomach carried over from the afternoon session.


As a handful of people began taking the hotseat one after another to experience their forms, I notice my anxiety slowly dissolving. When it was my turn to take the hotseat I did not feel a hot issue. I did, however, feel I didn't want to break the chain of everyone taking the hotseat that evening.


The process manager and tribe began receiving me and noticing as forms began to present themselves. I felt their encouragement and let my body do what it wanted to do. Intense breathing, reaching, and stretching forms follow and I experience them fully. I feel a tremendous calm and empowerment afterward.


I appreciate that you do not necessarily need a hot issue to take the hotseat. Rather, experiencing forms and feelings in any circumstance can lead to the benefit of being more centered and more willing to experience your feelings outside of tribe meetings.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Mon, 17 Oct 2005


Down about 40 Pounds since Workshop

Hi Ed!

Here is a word document containing a chart of my weight since a couple of weeks after the July Breathwork session.

I am down about 40 pounds so far. I am eating a very healthy diet, and I am exercising regularly. I feel great too.

I am now rid of a large portion of my excess weight, and I am focusing less on the scale and more on general fitness. I intend to begin a strength training regimen in addition to the cardio/aerobic work that I do for the past few months. Putting on some muscle might raise my resting metabolic rate a bit and support a sustainable healthy lifestyle that includes more activity.

Thank you for serving as a role model for me. I hope that by updating you on my results I return the service to you.


250 to 210 since the Workshop


Thank you for sharing your process.

Mon, 17 Oct 2005


TSP: Animation For Bliss

Dear Ed,

I reproduced the results for the "Exponential Crossover System" for both parameter sets (150/15) and (325/85) to the penny. I am using my own back testing engine written in C#. I had to change the type of some variables of my back testing engine from float (4 byte) to double (8 byte).

I created an animated GIF for the "Exponential Crossover System". The GIF contains a graphic showing how bliss depends on the "Slow Averaging Time", the "Fast Averaging Time" and the "Heat". I simply generated different frames for different values of heat, so the heat changes with the time as the animation runs. You can open the GIFs in a web browser or other software which is capable of playing animated GIFs.


Nice graphic.


For the animation, see TSP / EA / Reader Feedback.

Mon, 17 Oct 2005


Math Mystery Solution.

Hi Ed:

A word is missing in this submission to TSP title, "Math Mystery Solution". The correct sentence is:
"Well this works because price data (decimal) has very FEW significant figures and high as well as low precision IEEE754 can store it well."

Thank you for the catch.

Mon, 17 Oct 2005


Pollinator Report

IV Tribe Meeting of Oct 13th.

Hi Ed

Here is the pollinator report, as per commitment:

Last Thursday, I visit Incline Village Trading Tribe. Wow! Being there is akin to stepping into a different world altogether. A world where things just are, and time stands still.


Unsure whether NV is an hour ahead of CA (it is not), I actually reach well ahead of 2pm, Ed is in great health and good cheer. I ask him if I am early or late; he responds, characteristically, "You seem to be here about now". We chat for half an hour, mostly about his TSP precision issues and about my research.

Then people start filing in, we begin just after 2 PM with "15min Snapshots", where everyone updates their previous Snapshots and on their progress toward them. I get feedback on my two Snapshots, relating to lack of clarity in my motivation and emotion.


We have dinner watching a beautiful sunset on the lake. TTP session begins after dinner and goes on until close to 3 AM. Some very intense work from all the participants. Great commitment, great support, great insights. I learn to manage a hotseat by doing one and watching many in action.

I take the hotseat early and everyone is fresh and enthusiastic in supporting my forms. My issue is with procrastination, and I have various forms, only some of which I remember, like beating myself and humming and screaming, but I get an Aha out of it that the positive intention of my procrastination is to get me to fully experience my feelings of loss and sadness, which I intend to take to my next hotseat!

Listening and talking to Ed, especially after [another hotseat], I also get an insight into how the process works in dissolving issues that seemingly do not relate to what one takes to the hotseat.


I make a mental picture of various forms being magnets beneath a sheet of thin cardboard and issues sticking to them above the cardboard like little pieces of metal, and TTP demagnetizing the forms, and the issues fall off. Above the surface one sees no correlation between the hotseat and the issues resolving almost like magic.

Anyway, this is the first time I have been in a trading tribe this big and after participating in 11 hot seat sessions in a row, many of them highly intense, I sleep like a log well into the morning and find I am the last person still there! Ed and I chat for a while about various topics, and I watch him unload his dishwasher for the 4th time in 20 hours (Does he even load the dishwasher? When? I only notice him constantly removing the clean dishes. Hmm.) and then I leave.

I get back home and notice a change in my reaction to procrastination. I no longer feel bad or guilty about not doing what I "should". In fact, as soon as I let myself procrastinate all the more without judgment, I find that I no longer want to! Well, maybe I just want to put off putting things off, as someone says during my TTP.

I wish to thank Ed and the IV Tribe for this experience of "the simple support and [no] resistance system".

Thank you for sharing your process.




Something Deeper


accounts for these iron filings

coming to attention


Clip: http://louvre.tribe.net/tribe/upload/



Sun, 16 Oct 2005


Skid Function Not Working

in Commercial Software Packages


I am not able to get Skid working in the commercial software packages. Is there anyone out there that has matched your 150-15 EMA Cross Over system in
TradersStudio, TradeStation, MetaStock, or some other commercial software package?

In the commercial software when an order is triggered, they can access Open and High for that day, but they are not able to access the Open and High for the next day when the order actually fills. So, I can't get the SkidPrice to match by one day.

Does anyone know how do I access the Open and High on the day the limit order fills in commercial software packages to get the SkidPrice that would actually happen in real world trading that matches Ed's results?

The operation you cite seems fairly basic.  You might consider reading the instruction manuals thoroughly.


Let me know if your software cannot account for skid when filling an order.

Sun, 16 Oct 2005


Question if you received my post from Oct 13.


I sent a report Friday ... with a different email  than normal. Since it wasn't published I wonder if you received it. I can resend if you did not get it.

I do not publish every day, so you might not see a reply for a while.

Sat, 15 Oct 2005


Fat Tails


Regarding "The Economist" Cover

I see fat tails.


Yes, Trend Followers always see fat tails.




A Fat Tail


refers to a market that runs on and on

and therefore fattens the tail

on the P&L distribution curve.




The Nikkei


Magazine Covers

may help celebrate the discount.



Clip: http://www.painteddesertgeckos.com/


Sat, 15 Oct 2005


Wants Video of Process

Dear Ed,

I understand the importance of privacy and that you do not reveal personal information. I just want to emphasize that I'm not requesting the identity of contributors and that it is MY OWN personal information that I'm requesting from you, so that I can choose to share it with the local tribe here, as they are all eager to see more about the process.


I'm requesting, if possible, only the part where I am on the hot seat with you as the receiver during the May '04 Workshop, and nothing more. If you think that is still against the ground rules, I respect your judgment, and that's OK. Thanks.

As I recall, the tape shows several people interacting during your process.  Releasing it would compromise the privacy of several people.

Sat, 15 Oct 2005


Wants to Recommend Book

Dear Ed,

I really want to recommend a book. It is clear and inspiring. The philosophy behind it also fits perfectly with trading tribe concepts. Can you please include on your list of "Favorite Books" on the webpage.

You might consider telling your feelings about the book and the impact it is having on your trading.

Sat, 15 Oct 2005


No Studies


Hi Chief,

I am the accessing the Studies section of the website. When do you expect to make the studies available.

For studies, see TSP.

Sat, 15 Oct 2005


Trade Station Redeems Trades


Hi Ed,

Thanks for the help the other day. I very much appreciate your time, input and expertise.

I subsequently found out that:

1. Trade Station does automate one's system. The system remains on my hard drive, triggers are created by the software such that the trade is entered into the brokerage and (with QQQQ) should execute within a fraction of a second.

2. With bad prints, they will back me out of the trade.

During the time between execution and filing your claim, the price might move quite a bit.


I wonder what the exact rules are for redeeming a trade. 


You might consider getting the actual guarantee in writing.

Sat, 15 Oct 2005


Workshop as a Gift


I was racking my brain trying to come up with a birthday gift for [friend] this year, I thought of you as a possible resource.  I wanted to try to find something - as a gift - that would be more meaningful than the typical "stuff". I was thinking there might be an "experience" type of gift that you might know of - maybe a seminar or retreat or ?? If it was something we could do as a couple, great - but that's not necessary. Ed, any suggestions you have would be sincerely appreciated.

You might consider taking a Workshop together.  Be sure he is willing to go.

Sat, 15 Oct 2005


Anxiety as an Ally


The commitment and willingness demonstrated by everyone at our tribe meeting last night was inspiring. We had two pollinators and a total of eleven members present, all of whom took the hot seat. Receiving for ten others is rewarding. Since we all share many of the issues, it is clarifying. At the end of this very long meeting, we were all pretty much "zeroed out."

Not only did everyone take the hot seat, but each person also served as process manager. It was instructive and interesting to see the variations in techniques, and the responses of the sitters to these different tacks on managing the processes. There were several times when a relatively inexperienced manager was able to assist a sitter to find forms that were not immediately apparent in the beginning of the process. Through patient and thorough probing for feelings and perceptive observation of subtle body movements, issues were successfully addressed. Sometimes very subtle movements, when developed, resulted in uncovering large pools of feeling, leading to more forms. Experiencing all of the forms to the zero point results in a loss of the significance of the forms, and of the emotions or feelings associated with them. This will then allow the sitter, and often the receivers as well, to live without the need to produce dramas required to experience those feelings. The feelings may still come, but because one is willing to feel them, they no longer have emotional charge and do not rule one's behavior. This is liberating, a real path to personal freedom.

My own hot seat experience was enjoyable. Since it had been a while since I had taken the hot seat, I felt that I was likely to come up with some deep-seated stuff. I had been having anxiety about one of my snapshots, and wanted to clarify my intentions. Beginning with some twisting, squeezing, and writhing forms, yoga-like postures, perhaps some birth-related forms, and some screaming developed. My PM asked me to try to put all of my "one hundred forms" together, and I came up with a composite form that felt right to me. He directed me to stay with the feeling for as long as possible, which I did. I committed to experiencing the feeling and to taking it to the end, wherever and whenever that was. At the zero point, I realized that I would continue to have anxiety about my huge snapshot project, but that it is OK. I said that I would notice my anxiety whenever it arose, and then let it go. It seems to me that the feelings are less likely to produce deleterious dramas.

I thank my tribe for their vigorous, unconditional support. They help me to be a better person.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Yoga-a-a-a- a-a-ahhh


Some TTP forms look like yoga forms.


By following them wherever they go,

and being willing to experience them,

we get to the zero point.


Clip: http://www.exit50.com/images/




Sat, 15 Oct 2005





I am excited to report that the [City] TT potential membership has increased 150% since last Sunday (I have already been contacted by 2 people).


Do new tribes traditionally learn how to conduct meetings by attending the TTP Workshop or are most branches by members of the IV Tribe?


I have read the FAQ and the book and all of the information on the site, and we will have our first meeting next week to become acquainted. My intention is to create a successful tribe and I will appreciate any information.

Thanks for all of your giving, and receiving.

Most active, robust Tribes seem to have one or more members with workshop experience.  Many members of the Incline Village Trading Tribe also run other Tribes.


Here is some more important "any information" for you:



Tip for Washing Your Car


Be sure to wear

appropriate clothing

and to use

good quality soap.


Clip: http://www.dataste.com/blog/wordpress/wp-images/smilies/tastybabemustang.jpg

Sat, 15 Oct 2005

Hot Seat Report - Pressure

My hot-seat issue for our TTP meeting is an intense feeling of pressure that I do not like. It happens to be financial pressure and pressure I create through trading. It can expand outside these two areas of my life. I seem to experience pressure a lot. I don’t like it and part of me is unwilling to enjoy it or take responsibility for my part in creating it. Yet, results equal intentions. My feeling intense pressure is the result of my intending it on some unconscious level. Some part of me likes to feel all this pressure. This fact is really hard to digest since another part detests it just so much. But I do accept it.

I share my story as I enter the session. Tribesmen quickly help me into my forms. I manifest forms that range from squeezing my head hard with both hands on each temple, screaming “No!” as loud as I can, shaking my head and body violently back and forth on the floor and squeezing myself into a ball on the floor as tightly as I can while I contort my face. This is the manifestation of my pressure. I experience all these feelings. The ones I do not like, my tribesmen help me find the feeling of “not liking it” in my body and I experience that. Once I do that, I can easily feel the original feeling I did not initially wish to feel.

After moving through these forms, my issue seems to boil itself down to a part of me that likes creating pressure and another part that does not like feeling all this pressure. Part of my form that presents is a shaking back and forth of my head while I say I like all this pressure – a no I don’t like it, yes I do all at the same time. Both are true, real feelings and happening at the same time.

As I continue to do this form and intensify it, at some point both forms tip and merge. This process takes a while and requires a lot of effort. I gain an aha that pops into my consciousness. I can have both at the same time, not just one or the other. I can like and not like the pressure at the same time and this is ok. This releases a tremendous amount of pressure and I feel at peace with my issue. Both have positive intentions.

A residual form appears at the center of my forehead. I intensify a furrowing of my brow. When this passes, I reach my zero point – a peaceful and relaxed place.


Tribe members question me about my original entry point, but I cannot find a feeling or instance of pressure. I feel really good about like and not liking the pressure all at the same time instead of just one or the other. In fact, I realize that my one or the other choice is a major part of this knot. Indeed, when I allow myself to have both, the knot relaxes and becomes loose. When I stick with one or the other, it tightens. This is weird and cool at the same time.

I feel there still may be more under the surface with my pressure knot even after this major release. I commit to keep my eye on the prize and take the hot seat for however long it takes to dissolve it.

Thank you for sharing your process.





Our Experiences with Pressure


start early in life.




Clip: http://www.mothernature.com/images/



Sat, 15 Oct 2005


Getting to Zero

Dear Ed,

English is not my native language, so please, try to understand the meaning before the form.


During > 2 years I have been following your homepage. Man, how I was frustrated. All those riddles. Until I realized that we all have to figure it out by ourselves.


My wife (who is a mixture of native American, black and white) like all of us, hehe, says that you are a medicine man. Well, probably you are.


One day I will participate in one of your meetings. At the moment I don’t have the money for it. The small stake I have is, in speculation. But sooner or later, (I intend) we’ll meet.


Have you ever contemplated about the meaning of zero? As I see it, there are two different zeros. The real zero that is the sum of zero elements. And the strange zero that is the sum of > 1 elements. Some people say that in vacuum, mater and anti-mater appears all the time.

Trend follower wanna be and gonna be!





At The Bottom


all the tangents have

slope = 0.


Clip: http://www2.sccfl.edu/lvosbury/


Sat, 15 Oct 2005

The DIM Process - Do It Myself

Sir, each and every word you publish in the TT site does carry a lot of meaning / depth, fun at times too, and conveys how intensely serious you are. I really enjoy following the site. Thanks a million for your work to help people around the globe.

I am unable to get members to attemd my Tribe. So I have made FAQ as my Tribe and Sir, Ed as the Tribe Leader.


So whatever comes to my mind I am typing it out and sending to FAQ and would so hereafter, on a regular basis. Sir, hope my mails are not treated as trash and guide me through developing mentally.

From within I would like to become a trader, seriously, but could not develop insights. Just started going through the TSP. Is it a pre-requisite to be a technocrat or from a math background to go through, study, understand, follow and duplicate the TSP? Though I am having some math background, I need to revise many of the fundamentals.

How does, naturally, a mind evolves itself, like yours, for trend following - the answer for this should give an opportunity to get the insight of the mind of a genius like, Ed Seykota.

How does the trend following psychology could be developed by inculcating and practicing, if one doesn't have the natural ability, apart from the Tribe?

Writing to FAQ is not the same as attending a Tribe meeting.



Sat, 15 Oct 2005


How to Teach Trend Following

Dear Sir,

Recently I was blessed with a male baby who is now 9-month old.

Sir, I would like him to be a  trader with trend following approach. Would you please guide me through the process of his upbringing (mentally / psychologically), so that he could become a staunch trend follower.

You might consider setting an example of Trend Following by supporting him following his own heart.


You might also consider taking your feelings of wanting to manage your son's career to your Tribe as an entry point.



Demanding That Your Son

Learn to Go with the Flow


is a pretty good way

to transfer your k-nots

to him



Clip: http://www.savannahnow.com/exchange/


Fri, 14 Oct 2005


Embarrassment Impedes Startup

Hi Ed,

Our trading tribe meets once per month and has been in existence for some 8-9 months now. I’ve been a member since August.

We seem to be progressing slowly in terms of the methods as described in the Trading Tribe book, but progressing none-the-less.

We previously would spend the meetings TALKING about our various issues in regards to trading, whereas now we seem to be more open to try and experience these issues (i.e. the feelings/forms associated with these issues)

I know for myself that the difficulty lies in experiencing my feelings in front of other people, so I suppose that I have judgments regarding being in a vulnerable state around others.

It’s as though I don’t want to feel embarrassed and/or ridiculed by others if I assume some kind of ‘strange’ posture/position whilst experiencing my forms.

In other words . . . “what would the neighbors think!”

We’ve discussed (note that word) this amongst ourselves and we all feel similarly about this to a more or lesser degree.

We tend to ‘discuss’ a lot, hence the slow progress.

We all seem to be content to ‘stay in our heads’ at this moment rather than . . . . . . (cliché time) . . . ‘venturing out into the unknown’.

I wonder if this is the natural evolution of the typical tribe or is it simply the natural evolution of OUR tribe.

In closing, would you consider doing a workshop here in [City] if the numbers were sufficient? It would be of great benefit to have the guidance of an experienced TT practitioner, but I guess if the Mountain won’t come to Mohammed then . . . you know the rest.

Thanks Ed & double thanks for a really great Website.

Cheers & best regards

You might consider sending one or two of your members to a Workshop to get the hang of it.


Once your Tribe is up and running, you can take your feelings of embarrassment to the Tribe as an entry point.






has a positive intention



Clip: http://www.digitalhit.com/posters/p/421996




Fri, 14 Oct 2005


I don't want to go.

Hi Ed,

Our recent bi-weekly tribe meeting includes several guests pollinating from other tribes. The dynamic of the tribe changes the last few meeting as some old members depart and fresh faces turn up. In my check-in I state I am uncomfortable with the new faces and the tribe member who already know me are aware that comfort is one of my issues.

An indication earlier in the evening shows that all 11 members intend to get on the hotseat. I sit just over half way around the circle from the starting point and wait there stewing through 6 hot seats before my turn arises.


The night seems to drag and I get very annoyed sitting through the processes. Finally my turn arises and my well thought out excuse of why I do not intend to take the hotseat this evening flows freely.


I think I am in the clear and feel a general sense of relief. As we start to move on to the next hotseat participant Ed reminds me that as a member of the IVTT I make a commitment to take the hotseat at every meeting. In effect Ed tells me to commit to the work on the hotseat this evening or alternatively consider resigning from the tribe.

I have many issues including defiance, skepticism of the whole form process and a general resistance to letting go on the hotseat.


Now I am in a pickle. It is either s--- or get off the pot. Despite the urge to walk out I stay and take the hotseat. The process manager does a great job of teasing out some feelings. I decide to be brutally honest and say I think the process is a crock of s--- and the other member of the group are a bunch of w------ for the forms they readily display.


It feels great to do this and the tribe repeatedly encourage me to do more and get into my feelings. I put several forms together that evolve out of anger and sadness. It feels great to do this and I am extremely pleased that Ed holds my feet to the fire and makes me honor my hotseat commitment despite my initial defiance.

In my check-out I mention a similar s--- or get off the pot ultimatum I receive nearly 10 years ago from my then girlfriend and now wife. The choice to stick with that commitment is the best decision of my life. I thank the tribe for their support and continue to receive for the remaining 4 other members until our marathon session finally concludes at 2:30 AM.

Thank you for sharing your process.



Fri, 14 Oct 2005


TTP and Me


I just wanted to let you know how well things are going, since my introduction TTP. I can't begin to list all of the changes that are taking place. I feel as though I am in a counter clockwise circle of energy that extends upward, above, in front, down and around me.


I'm daring to dream, believing that my visions will come true, acting in accordance with the vision, and find the environment changing. My actions are becoming more intuitively directed as I learn to trust life and act in accordance with my vision.


Willing to acknowledge, address, and experience the intensity of all of my feelings, I'm finding my perception of reality to be changing drastically. Life and I appear to be working together toward the creation of my vision.


I'm watching life work with and propel me toward my vision. Literally, from out of nowhere I recently received a call, and was given (as a gift) a Hotel and Ski Package in North Shore Tahoe. Just like that, the hotel accommodations have been covered for the workshop.


Look at the abundance, I have ski tickets to give away. I can not wait to see how this vision continues to come together. It is truly an amazing process. There are so many things I would like to have, create, and share, but there is nowhere I'd rather be than right here, right now.

Thank you for everything you've done, you do, and you are.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Thu, 13 Oct 2005


Copy of Tape

Dear Ed,

How are you? It's been a year and a half since the Workshop (May '04), and I'm now looking for plane tickets to attend your next one in January. I truly appreciate the experience when you receive me on the hot seat at that time, and validate my feelings to cry as much as I want. For you it may be just another routine session, but for me it's a tremendous lesson I never forget, and I thank you wholeheartedly.

We have a tribe meeting last night and we are discussing the possibility of taping our own session (if all agree), and to perhaps send it to you for some feedbacks. Moreover, the tribe think they can benefit greatly if they can see how you receive me on the hot seat. So, may I ask if you still have it on tape or some digital version? If so, is it OK to send us a copy so that I can share the experience with them? If the tape is no longer available or you don't feel that's a good idea, I respect your decision and accept it as is. In any case, I thank you for all your teachings and sharing all these years. Thank you very much.

I do not publish the identity of contributors

or reveal personal information.  Several people appear on the tape.  See ground rules.


If you wish to share your experience of working with me, bring your Tribe to the next Workshop.



Thu, 13 Oct 2005


How to Change Someone Else


At our last Tribe Meeting, I take the hot seat wit an issue about my son's misbehavior.  He is clearly acting out, even to the extent of attracting attention from the local police.


My process manager leads me through several forms, including intense grimacing and shaking that somehow resolve to a posture in which I am facing upward on the floor, supporting myself on my hands and feet with my torso arching upward, like a bridge.

I make some connections that somehow, my son's behavior is part of a bridge or transition from living at home to finding his own way in the world.


I seem to be at some kind of zero point.  The Tribe then peppers me with comments, statements and questions as a test to see if they can still plug me in to my upset.  I answer all of them with consistent resolve to stay the course and contain my own behavior, while supporting my son to find his own way.


Although my son has no direct knowledge about the tribe meeting and no discussion about it with me, I notice his behavior is now remarkably different.

I see that the way to fix someone else is to take my concerns about him to Tribe.

Thank you for sharing your process. Nice insight. You might consider forming a Tribe some day.



Fathers and Sons


trade turns teaching each other.



Clip: http://www.richardcorbett.co.uk/cd/



Thu, 13 Oct 2005


Intuition, Ego and a Magazine Cover

Dear Ed,

I e-mailed you a great chart for Japan a couple of weeks ago.

But alas, here is the front cover of this week's Economist:

My strong intuition (looking at the sun creeping over the mountain) is that the message is a "Permission to buy" rather than "Permission to sell", as per your theories on magazine covers.

Alternatively, this could be the mischievous voice of my ego, since I'm long in Japanese stock.

Is the magazine cover theory up for debate?

best wishes,



I see something emerging at the top - along with it's mirror image.  The cover seems calm and in balance. I do not perceive much ebullience.

Thu, 13 Oct 2005




Somebody commented some time ago that the visual images in your replies to FAQ were becoming more sexualized.

May I say that I rather like them!!


Perhaps our "snapshots" coincide in this regard?

People also seem to stop and look at photos of children, dogs and nice homes.




If You Find This Photo Offensive


You can look away,

and / or

take you feelings about it

to your Tribe.



Clip: http://www.mrkphoto.com/images/


Thu, 13 Oct 2005




Dear Mr. Seykota,

I trade the Forex markets using my own long term trend following system, trying to get a yearly return of 35% and have been successful in my venture so far.


I first read about you in Market Wizards and ever since I've kept a close eye to your work and have found that our trading philosophies are very similar. I'm guessing your a busy man so ill keep it short.
I've been trying to figure out whether to put on the full position from the beginning or whether to pyramid my positions.

You can find answers to your question by back testing.  See TSP, above, for examples.



Pyramids May Look Different


From the top.



Clip: http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~bentlema/


Wed, 12 Oct 2005



Do you post the performance of ... trading systems.

FAQ does not post trader performance.  See Ground Rules, above.

Wed, 12 Oct 2005


Stock investors might want to load up on this stuff.



Clip: http://www.udap.com/safety.htm

You might consider ways to convert bear markets from adversaries to allies.

Wed, 12 Oct 2005


Hot Seat Experience

Hi Ed,

In the afternoon session when I explain my snapshot, I feel very nervous. My voice is shaky, my chest is tight, and I don’t think clearly. I feel embarrassment. I decide to take these feelings to the hot seat.

On the hot seat, I feel tightness in my chest and the tribe encourages me to go with that feeling. I grab my chest with my right arm and my other arm grabs my leg as I extend them with legs crossed. I feel rage bubbling up my throat, so I yell several obscenities at the top of my lungs. I go through several forms and then the process manager encourages me to integrate them. I lean over and I loop one of my arms under one of my legs and over the other one. With my other arm, I grab the toes of my other leg and extend my leg. At the end of the process, I lean back in my chair and I feel very tired.

I think it is interesting that my integration of forms is a knot. It takes me a few days to realize this. The feelings I experience on the hot seat are frustration and anger. As a kid, my older brother likes to humiliate me in social situations. When this happens, I feel nervousness, shame and embarrassment. If I get angry, he takes that as an invitation to fight. If we get into a fight, he makes sure to inflict pain. Even if I “win” the fight, when I turn my back he is going to get the last lick. To avoid fights, I don’t show my anger. I pretend to ignore him.

Since the hot seat session, I re-play many experiences in my life where I have anger in a knot. I have many AHA’s. Every day there is something new. It feels good to reclaim anger as an ally. I don’t have to run dramas in my relationships to express my anger. I thank all of the members of the [City] Trading Tribe for your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.






When Anger is an Ally


you experience its positive intention

and it disappears


when anger is an adversary


you might avoid it, bottle it up

and eventually express it violently.



Clip: http://www.lssofny.org/Counseling/


Tue, 11 Oct 2005


Owning the System

Dear Ed,

Reading FAQ has provided tremendous benefits in my life, particularly in seeking the answer to “right livelihood”, quitting smoking, being much more open with my feelings and finally being able to discuss sensitive issues with my wife after 25 years of stifling what was really on my mind. I am ever grateful to you for your service to all of us who wonder if this all there is to life. She thanks you also and is fully supportive of all that I am trying to do. She even encouraged me to attend a workshop.

My stock selection system generates buy/sell, short/cover orders on up to 15 stocks (using a 12% trailing stop) from an S&P 1500 stock database. This is a campaign reversal plan (always in the market, either long or short). Back-testing yields returns or more than 3 to 1 drawdown multiple, with a 31% maximum drawdown between 1995 and today. I do not have an operator in my system to generate go-long/go-short campaign turns. I obtain them from an outside vendor. I do have access to this vendor’s past private and public buy or sell signals for back-testing. My back-testing shows an 80+% profitable campaign history and approximately 55% profitable trades, with an average of around 3 signals per year.

Since I do not “own” the signal generator, do I really have a system?

The way you do things is your system.


If you do not understand your system and/or if you system is inconsistent, it is still your system.


If you can get back data on your campaign signal vendor, you can back test your entire system.




Systems Have Many Variables


some are endogenous

and subject to your influence


some are exogenous

and serve as inputs

or drivers.



Clip: http://web.media.mit.edu/~stefanm/


Tue, 11 Oct 2005


How to Change Someone Else


Dear Ed,

My wife and her mother are both very loving persons, and there is no doubt that they both love each other very much. My wife would make plans for her mother when she comes visit, like taking her for a vacation and they have a good time.

However, my wife sometimes gets very upset when she talks on the phone with her mother. When I ask what is wrong, she complains that her mother always manages to get on her nerves by asking precisely the wrong question, making the wrong suggestion, or just ignoring her request. For example, being in another country and not familiar with the US culture, her mother may make suggestions to my wife where one side feels absolutely reasonable and the other feels ridiculous. Or my wife repeatedly pleads to her mother to go see a doctor because she has foot problems, or asks her not to do any house work so that she can have some rest, but her mother would not listen. She wouldn't go to see the doctor and insist on cleaning the bathroom and kitchen for us, despite my wife would rather see her taking more rest than doing more work.

From old FAQ I remember you say that to the extent that one is willing to allow her parents to be the way they are, to the extent she is unwilling to feel her own feelings about living her life, then she risks enrolling herself as a subject. I see the manipulation at work: my wife wants her mother to be whom my wife wants her to be. So I try to hint at my wife that if she can just allow her mother to be the person she is, then there is no need to get upset.

Yesterday they were on the phone again, and my wife who is usually very gentle, gets very irritated and even stomp on the floor several times. She is obviously annoyed, and when they finish talking, I hear my wife weeping - the kind of weeping not because of sadness, but that she is so upset yet trying to holding back her emotions.

So I try to validate her feelings. I sit down with her and ask about how she's feeling. She gets into it, and there are more tears, with some kicking in the air. I smile at her and tell her it's good to be experiencing these feelings, and it's OK to let it all out. She does a little more and then she calms down.

I know deep inside she thinks that she shouldn't get mad at her mother, because she knows her mother has a good intention. Yet her mother seems to know exactly which button to push to get her irritated, and they've been running this drama for a while. I try to let her go deeper into this knot of hers, but she says she has calmed down now and need to prepare dinner. Not wanting to force her into what she resists, I let her go.

The interesting observation I have on them is how she avoids her feeling by calming herself down, and remind herself shouldn't get upset. Also, she and her mother actually share a lot of similar traits. My mother-in-law refuses to go to see the foot doctor just like my wife refuses to see the chiropractor on her neck problem. They both care about their closed ones, and so they'd do what they themselves think is good for others, despite being told otherwise.

I guess my question is how can I do more to help validate my wife's feelings? As a receiver, it is obvious to me that she is still holding judgments, and she is avoiding to go deeper. If it were a TTP setting, I'd ask her to stomp the floor more. But I also know that telling her to do so tends to bring out her conscious resistance, her judgment about making noise and appearing foolish, and insisting her to do so is not TTP. I try asking about how she feels, she'd go over "why" she is upset and maybe feeling a little of that too, but once she becomes aware she's upset she'd hold back the feeling and do something else.

Is there anything I can do to encourage her to go deeper? Many thanks.

You might consider taking your feelings of wanting to fix your wife to your Tribe.




Before You Operate On Someone Else


be sure to get consent



Clip: http://www.doerings.net/


Tue, 11 Oct 2005


Resolving Issues / Wants to attend IV-TT


Mon, 10 Oct 2005


I need to attend/audit a TTP meeting in IV. You may know that I run the [City] Tribe where [another individual] acts as the process manager. [We] are now up to 5 members and I am reviewing three more applicants.

It is just about three months since the breath workshop and in that time span, I have resolved the two issues I brought to the Breath workshop.

Currently, I have some live issues - 1. regarding my business (money management), 2. trading (taking signals but need to trade proper sizes - I take too small sizes compared to models. and 3. personal life - recent break up.


Regarding business - a large company has approached me to join them and to combine my firm with their hedge fund division.

Yes, you may attend one time as a pollinator, more if you agree to the terms on the Directory page.



Tue, 11 Oct 2005


Wants to Join


Dear Ed,

Any way I can be a part of one of your groups ?

Yes, See Directory, above.

Tue, 11 Oct 2005


Continuous Contracts

Dear Ed , If we run the TSP using the underlying ( for example spot Gold , spot S and P Index ) price series, would the result be significantly different?


My point is that it is easier to get price history for the underlying rather than for continuous contracts. Do you think the trade off could be significant?

If you run your test on spot gold, then you have to allow for the cost of carrying a cash position.  The Panama continuous chart accounts for this by decreasing in value relative to the cash chart.


You might take your feelings of wanting to do the easy thing to your Tribe as an entry point.





is Not Always the only component

in your bliss function.



Clip: http://www.irtc.org/ftp/pub/


Tue, 11 Oct 2005


New Tribe


I am excited to report that the [City] TT potential membership has increased 150% since last Sunday (I have already been contacted by 2 people). Do new tribes traditionally learn how to conduct meetings by attending the TTP Workshop or are most branches by members of the IV Tribe?


I have read the FAQ and the book and all of the information on the site, and we will have our first meeting next week to become acquainted. My intention is to create a successful tribe and I will appreciate any information.

Thanks for all of your giving, and receiving.

Methods of learning include reading the book, attending a workshop, visiting other Tribes, accepting Pollinators and taking your feeling of wanting to learn to your Tribe as an entry point. 



Learning by Teaching



Clip: http://www.hrs.ualberta.ca/images/