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February 1 - 14, 2006


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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Tue, 14 Feb 2006



Dear Sir:

Congrats on your great psychological breakthrough.

Is a tribe similar to a meeting of PHGGTTS?

Thanks for your attention.

PHGGTTS appears to be your slang word for the slang word faggots.


You might consider taking your discomfort about sexual preferences to the hot seat as an entry point.




Woman With Faggot


A faggot is a bundle of sticks, typically for firewood.


One popular urban myth is that the slang term faggot derives from the practice of burning homosexuals at the stake. This is likely incorrect as the historical penalty is hanging, not burning.


More likely, the term evolves from contemptuous slang for woman, with reinforcement by the Yiddish word, faygele, literally, little bird and also British public school slang: fag, noun: a junior who assists a senior and verb: to so assist.


Clip: http://www.kunstkamera.ru/exhibition/


Tue, 14 Feb 2006


Husband and Wife "Should On" Each Other Less

and Listen to Each Other More

After attending the May 2006 workshop and experiencing the positive changes in all aspects of my life and my trading, I decide I need to travel to the USA again to learn more about the process, as I have relapsed back into old habits.

My wife decided to attend as well. I wonder what the benefits to our relationship will be and I am very excited about what we can achieve.

We realized that we are often unwilling to do TTP so we make a commitment to do it when one of us is hot.

We notice very positive change when we stop “should-ing” (you should do… ) on each other and others. We didn’t realize how often we did this until we listened to each other!

We find it best if the sender has closed eyes. This seems to break the body language communication between us, seems to inhabit the eyes from diverting our attention and for the sender it feels as though there is group validation which helps the process.

It has opened up our relationship as far as communication and resolving issues go. If one of us is tending towards some sort of drama the other asks “are you willing to do TTP on this issue”. This question seems to diffuse the situation and we are both very careful not to use it as a manipulation or prevocational tool.

We both seem to understand each other better.

We are both more patient.

We have totally eliminated negative or violent communication between us (with help from Non-violent Communication), Marshall B Rosenberg).

We have both discussed certain areas of life that we know we have K-nots in. Our strategy is to deal with this when we are faced with the particular drama. The one without the K-not will probe for feelings. If there are none, then we do nothing. If there are feelings and the sender is not willing to do TTP we make a note. If the sender has feelings and is unwilling 3 times we have a TTP session to deal with it.

Ed, Do you have any feedback or suggestions? We are both very committed to the process.

Thank you for your unlimited generosity with your knowledge and time.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider assembling a Tribe of your own, perhaps comprising other couples.




You Can Sometimes See More Clearly


with your eyelids down.


Clip: http://images.meredith.com/lhj/images/


Mon, 13 Feb 2006


Trading System Design

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I am not a tribe member. I sent you an e-mail on Friday. I would like to ask this:

Would you recommend to attend your seminar based on the following:

1. I am familiar with the markets
2. I was a hedger for Options at NYMEX (1998-2001)
3. I quit, traded some options and stocks unsuccessfully
4. I moved.
5. I have learned lots about macro and some about fixed income
6. I studied some psychology
7. I have read Trend Following
8. I ordered your book
9. I absolutely agree with TF and understand the concepts
10. I have done the psychological work I needed to do.
11. I cannot program in CC+[++] yet
12. I am committed to getting this down and learn from you ( I will put 10% on my net worth to attend your event).
13. I have never really traded my own book except this TF trade in New Zealand 90 day bills I put on through our boss' account.

Am I going to be able to put together a Trend following System after your seminar and start trading?

You can put together a Trend Following system if you are willing to do so.


The TTP Workshop does not deal directly with trading system design and operation.


I am providing TSP (see link above) to assist people with system design.

Mon, 13 Feb 2006


A Typo

Hi Ed,

I wait for a while but it seems to be always there: an incongruity at

TSP/EA/Exponential/index.htm .

Under the 2nd graph of "Looking for the Best Average" paragraph I read:
.25 & .075 ==> -10%
but a row below:
Green: Slow EA(.55) ...
Red: Fast EA(.075) ...

Thank you for the catch.

Sun, 12 Feb 2006


Exp Average Crossover


I originally had completed the process in Excel (verified to the penny), but I wanted to be able to change the parameters more easily, and to have a way to modify the system programmatically in the future (such as using an ATR stop in addition to a crossover). (see attached zipped Access database).

I was dismayed when I saw that the 15/150 system generated only 3.3 million while the benchmark generated 32 million! Even using longer fast and long averages (85/325) still got you less than halfway. I know that this is simply using 1 instrument, and only going long. I was, however, delighted to discover that using the longer averages, and changing the ATR multiplier to 3 generated a whopping 33.6 million! By adjusting the ATR days from 20 to 14 brings us to 35.4 million. I realize that this increases the risk, and therefore the heat of the system ... however, it is comforting to know that one can beat money sitting and collecting 10% a year using a trading system.

Thank you so much for providing these exercises.

Thank you for the confirmation.

Sat, 11 Feb 2006


Center for Non-Violent Communication



Have you heard of this or seen the website?



Non-Violent communication seems to develop naturally from TTP. 


Attempts to force a communication style on top of k-nots generally tightens the k-nots.  For example, telling someone not to yell, over and over, is likely to provoke yelling.

Fri, 10 Feb 2006


Wants a Meal


Dear Mr. Seykota,

Through various “coincidences” in 1998 I switched jobs and went from selling X’mas trees and construction to clerking on NYMEX and became a hedger for Option guys in all Energies, Cotton, Sugar, Coffee and gold. Back then I knew about you ... and ... the timing was off.

Looking back, I couldn’t have made it due to my unknowingness of myself. I came to the US in 1995 after 2 years of teaching myself English back in [Country]. I spent all my savings on a satellite dish and watched CNN to learn English. I figured that the best test of my English language comprehension would be to work on one of the crazy exchanges I saw on TV.


Back then I didn’t even know what a share was and I thought oil is traded manually in the ports of NY and NJ. [Name] probably the most sophisticated local, who you may know, introduced me to NYMEX back in 1998 after meeting him at a party at his home in NYC.

In 2003, after hopefully erroneous conclusion that I couldn’t trade, I temporarily quit, went to Africa to climb Kilimanjaro and moved to [City] to work on myself, which I successfully have!

I even found work at a tax shelter company. We do macro research, publish weekly reports on the world and lately we have been putting on curve trades, which are really some attempts to forecast the future and benefit from it. I do not believe in such approach since it will never work long term and will serve as a vehicle of excitement and boasting in some short term.

The reason I am writing to you is that I want to share my experience of getting to know myself and figure out (hopefully with your input) how to start what I had to delay – trend following trading.

I went so as far as visiting my biological father who I had never met before, which was very beneficial. Second I found out that many psychological issues that prevent one from concentration and keeping healthy self-esteem come out during intimate relationships.

I got very lucky to meet a man who explained the fallacy of common way women are looked upon and all the mayhem that stems from it.


After just a month work, I will not look at relationships / women in the same way thus protecting myself from adverse effects of intimate relationships that are detrimental to trading, in my opinion. Yet still enjoying much better new relationships though. You wouldn’t believe the calm that came over me when I came to that realization. Absolute and complete peace I have never felt before.

The very last straw was when I looked around our office and saw all these people researching the prices of fancy homes and cars because they made several thousand dollars trading their prediction of what this and that Central Bank will do. They were lucky and made a little cash. I realized how futile that is, how really idiotic it is to get wrapped up in the barrage of news and people predicting the future, which, of course, doesn’t exist. I agree a 100% with your views on all this, no doubt.

I also realized that through 3 years of work on my psyche and never really thinking about going back to trading, after practicing yoga, calming my mind tremendously through meditation and slowly re-programming my own negative self-talk with simple 3-way mind programming, I have positive feelings about my commitment to trading the markets the right way. Of course, only with the sound money management, discipline and mindset.

The anxiety just vanished. Truly, overriding ones conditioning is an amazing way to improve all aspects of one’s life. The amount of approval I used to seek on the outside was tremendous and unknown to me. The constant insecurity that if I cannot program complex models I cannot be successful trader was ever present.

And then, it was gone. I am still awaking from this magnificent switch.

I found your website and at the same time started to read Trend Following. I already applied the Trend Following Attitude to my greatest hobby – kite boarding, which I practice as often as we have wind. Again, in the past I was doing it for others to approve of me. Now I do it for myself only (I allowed myself to show off when a boat full of ladies goes by though) and the improvements are 20 fold.

See, I could never figure out why with all the discipline in my life I couldn’t be disciplined in managing the mental states absolutely essential for trend trading.


Now I know that that discipline was the problem, ironically. The discipline to do yoga every morning, eating healthy and work out regularly or eating every piece of food on plate for that matter has nothing to do with the discipline needed to follow a trend.


Truly one of the 24 “AHA” moments I have had lately. Discipline to get approval may feel as the good discipline, however the most of that kind of discipline, the worse one gets.

I would like to buy you a breakfast / lunch and / or dinner. I will not ask any questions on any markets. I can just fly over and have a meal with you.


I would be most grateful for your time and advice I am seeking.

[Otherwise] would you, please consider telling me how to start in the TT? I am a bit isolated here ... but I am sure I can learn somehow before I figure out how to attend your workshop.

Thanks much for your time to read my letter,

All the Best,

You can find details on starting a Tribe at the Directory above, and for Private Consulting at the bottom of Ground Rules.

Fri, 10 Feb 2006


Test Results Duplicated

I have duplicated the test results in the three log files for the Exponential Lag 150/15 test using Visual Basic 3.0.

I have duplicated the test results for the list of stocks in the Trends tutorial using TeleChart, with one exception. ANSI is not available in the database due to its merger with St. Jude Medical. Regarding the list ... you ask for the top 15 stocks but actually include 16 in the list. Since ANSI is no longer trading the list now includes 15 active stocks :-)

Have a great NOW ...

Thank you for the confirmation.






is the essence of receiving.



Clip: http://www.accessexcellence.org/


Thu, 9 Feb 2006


Workshop Feedback


I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing your knowledge on the power of the subconscious mind.

The most valuable learning experience for me relates to the snapshot process. I understand that the energy from my intention is more powerful than any feeling.


This process gave me a much better understanding of how to maintain a successful relationship with my fiancé.


We are mutually committed to following a system in our relationship which is a wonderful tool to get through any issues that come up.

I am so grateful to have this knowledge base.

Thank you for sharing your process.




When Your Intention is Engagement


the form of engagement

becomes essential.


Clip: http://www.christophermaxwell.com/


Thu, 9 Feb 2006


Notes on Programming for Worden



Worden uses deprecated threading model for their in-proc COM servers.

I don't know how you access Worden data. You might be interested in one of my recent discoveries.

Problem: It takes an hour to extract the data in my new software as opposed to a few minutes with my old software. The new program runs on a machine with a lot less memory. However, performance monitoring shows that the problem is not due to swapping.

Resolution: The aha comes in a trance-like state at the end of a long brisk walk. The classes in the Worden TC200Dev.dll do not register a threading model so they default to the deprecated 'Main' threading model.



My new program accesses the Worden COM server from a worker thread so that the GUI remains responsive during this long running operation. The result of combining access from a worker thread with Worden's deprecated threading model is cross-thread marshalling of every call and painfully slow execution.

Possible solutions:
1) Run updates in a separate process.
2) Jump through hoops to access it only from the main thread.
3) Get Worden to fix their classes to at least use the Apartment model.

I choose solution 1 for my program. I also intend to notify Worden of the issue.


Fred-ian slip in an Emerson Quote?

From a recent FAQ:

What lies before me
and what lies behind me
are tiny matters
next to what lies
lie within me.

I wonder if using 'what lies lie within me' instead of Emerson's 'what lies within me' is a Fred-ian slip. I like your version a little better.

Thank you for the programming notes. 


Thank you for noticing the Emersonian Twist.




Some of the Best Code


emanates from trance.



Clip: http://www.wrightair.btinternet.co.uk/


Thu, 9 Feb 2006


Progress Report

Greetings, Chief.

I continue to make excellent progress in system development.


My back-tested average return is now twice the max drawdown, based on a portfolio of all liquid North American and European futures markets. My system becomes simpler and more realistic.

I now find it easier to accept and deal with the frustration, tedium, and programming challenges that accompany system development. I acknowledge the feelings when they occur, pause for a little while when necessary to regroup, and then keep going to attain ever higher levels of performance.


Some of my biggest breakthroughs occur right after periods of extreme frustration.

I have a clear path ahead of me and intend to continue making excellent progress. And, I have TTP as a tool to deal with anything that pops up and tries to stand between me and my snapshot. Thanks for your help and the help of my tribe members.

Thank you for sharing your process.


I suspect your breakthroughs occur not when you are willing to experience your frustration.






Keeping an Eye on the World


and Cleaning Up.



Clip: http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/



Thu, 09 Feb 2006


Systems Model / Responsibility Model

Chief Ed,

I'm asking for detailed clarification regarding the definition of System Model and it's relationship to the Responsibility Model.

I see how System Model (macro) consequence follows logically from validity of Responsibility Model. Can you please:

1) define System Model formally?

2) be specific about relationship with Responsibility Model (if any) ?

3) include discussion / illustration , similar to your detailed reply at:

(Fri, 30 Sep 2005 Responsibility Model) ?

Thanks very much Chief.



References: ("System Model" citations):

Tue, 24 Jan 2006 Causal Model in Stock Trading

Tue, 31 Jan 2006 What Up With Google

Wed, 11 Jan 2006 Finds Another Form by looking for Opposites. (see graphic caption)





The System Model is the perception that all the elements in a system radiate intention to all the other elements.


The Causal Model is the perception that every event has a cause.


The Causal Model supports the notions of blame and guilt, and by extension understands the Western legal and political systems.


The Responsibility Model supports the empowerment of intention.


In the System Model, we may employ the causal model, to reduce the number of radiating links where some links clearly outweigh  others.  In this way, we might say that in the set {A, B, C, D, E}, where A radiates mostly to B and B collects radiation mostly from A, that A causes B according to some exclusive transfer function.


If we then code all the transfer function links as additions, multiplications and integrations, we can define the system as a set of interrelating integrals and even simulate system behavior numerically with Euler's method.


In this way, we may see that system behavior evolves as all the elements interact and change, and change each other and change their effects on each other.


Thus, in a system, all the elements, and all their evolving interactions are responsible for the overall system behavior. 


To change system behavior, individual elements may effectively change how they react to their senders.  They have no control over how their receivers react to them.


To be more effective in your own system, you can work on how you receive others.  Demanding that others receive you differently is a generally ineffective, although popular, strategy.




In an Ecological System


everything ultimately causes itself.



Clip: http://wekk.jp/ecological-system1.jpg

Wed, 8 Feb 2006


Tribe Update

Hi Ed!

The [City] tribe is growing. We now have 8 members, and we find that our TTP work is becoming more productive all the time.

Best wishes to you and the Incline Village Tribe!

Thank you for the update.



Tribes That Promote Personal Growth


tend to grow.



Clip: http://www.chestnuthomes.co.uk/


Wed, 08 Feb 2006


TTP Poem


I have a great hot seat experience two nights ago. The process manager asks me what stands between me and doing what I really want to do, and I am scattered initially. I tell a story, I have fun by becoming a different "character" and sending that to the tribe.


I usually do not send that part of myself to people, and I enjoy doing it on the hot seat. I then enjoy yelling "I'm free!" It is a feeling that I greatly enjoy experiencing and it was in a knot before the hot seat. I send something to you inspired by the hot seat.

accepting the premise
that I am a menace

when I don't choose to feel
what I know I need to heal

conceal the deal
no time to reveal

excuse me friends
while I focus on the end

instead of knowing now

I am free so free
so many feelings of me

I am happy
I intend the best
thank you
I am ready

Thank you for sharing your process.




The Willingness to Experience Restriction


sets you free.



Clip: http://www.1greeneye.net/walls/freedom.jpg

Wed, 08 Feb 2006


Positive Intention of Loss


I just blew through my equity in an emotional whirlwind. I think I enjoyed it, because I've stopped trading, and I feel great!!!


Thank you for sharing your process.



If You Are Unwilling to Experience the Feeling

 of not wanting to continue


you might set up a whirlwind drama

to lose something,

to justify stopping.


If you are willing

to experience the feeling

of wanting to stop,

you might, then, simply stop.



Clip: http://www.thexenascrolls.homestead.com/


Tue, 7 Feb 2006



Just wondering what the status of the TSP section of your site is. It doesn't appear to have been updated since last Fall.

Thank you and regards,

I am currently updating my software from C++ to C# - and adding staff to move TSP forward.




Sometimes a Pause


indicates preparation.



Clip: http://adamkesher.canalblog.com/


Tue, 7 Feb 2006


Trading in the NOW!



Ed Says:
Fundamentalists like to analyze past events and
predict the future. Trend Followers react to the ever
evolving moment of now.

I say:

There also exists many Technicians who create
elaborate models to predict the future.

Do you think Trend Followers are unique in trading the
markets in the NOW?

Best Wishes,

Staying in the now supports all kinds of trading, and all kinds of activity.


Staying in the now is particularly compatible with Trend Following.




When You Willingly Experience

Doing What You are Doing


while you are doing it,


you are living in the now.




Mon, 6 Feb 2006


Trading Tribe Workshop

Dear Ed,

How are you?

I joined [City] tribe for two weeks. I have some new questions about the TTP. I tried to find the answers by looking back old TTP FAQ posts because I guess other people might have asked the similar questions.

It is not easy to find the particular information which I am interested in. My suggestion is to put a Google search bar on the FAQ web page. So We can do some search on them.

OK, here are my real questions. One question is about the drumming process. I noticed that I could find the main theme of drum beats at the TTP workshop easily.


However, I couldn't find the harmonious experience at my trading tribe. There are several types of drum beats and I tried to follow but they never converge. My feeling after the drumming is a bit uneasy.


Should I ask the drumming process stop until it converges or accept as it is? I am not so sure what the purpose of drumming except making us focused on the pending tribe check in.

My another question is about receiving. Suppose one people is very upset about my receiving and beginning to insult me with words. Well, I don't feel too much offensive, but should I point this out to the sender or say thank you? Thank you for your answers.


You can find a Google Site Search under the Resources link, above.


You might consider taking your uneasy feelings about drumming to the hot seat.


Receiving does not include talking to the sender, or insulting him with words. 


You might consider (1) asking your sender about his intentions and (2) taking your uneasy feelings about the receiver to the hot seat.




If You Feel Uneasy About Something


and don't like the feeling

you likely have a k-not.


If you do like the feeling,

you can employ it's positive intention.



Clip: http://www.goldmansmythe.com/contest.html

Mon, 06 Feb 2006


Verbal Forms

Hi Ed,

Thank you for the great site. I’m a member of the [City] Trading Tribe and the other night; we had a person auditing our tribe, who posed a challenge to us while on the hot seat. The person went on the hot seat and got into a form where she slouched in the chair and went numb.


She argued that her forms emerging were verbal (basically talking). I realize that as a receiver, we are to acknowledge and validate all forms.

My questions are:

1) Can forms become verbalized? Or in other words, can physical movement of the mouth (talking back to the receiver in different volumes, tones, speed, etc.) be viewed as a physical analog of a feeling?

2) As a receiver, how would you acknowledge or validate someone whose physical form is to go numb, slouch and not show any movement?

Thanks for any insight …

If the sender invokes feelings about the mouth, throat and lips, it may indicate a form.


If the sender goes numb and / or talks about the form rather than displaying it, you may have some evidence of unwillingness to proceed.


You might counter by asking the sender if she is really willing to do the work.  If not, simply acknowledge the unwillingness, check out, and select a new sender.


Acknowledging unwillingness and passing to a more willing sender seems to support all members of the Tribe, including the unwilling sender.





The Mouth Can Express Many Forms


and can also help

conceal others.



Clip: http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1920000/


Mon, 6 Feb 2006


Spinning Off New Tribes


What do you think of the solution I have proposed below for handling new requests now that our tribe is full?

I just received a request and I offered him a temporary spot so he could learn the process and start his own tribe. Right now, that's how I think I'm going to handle new requests. Basically, we would have a rotating "trainer" spot. The trainer attends 3-4 meetings, then starts his own tribe, with a few of us to help him get started. This way, the new tribe could then handle many of the new requests that come in. What do you guys think of that?

In the Incline Village Trading Tribe, I intend that every member develop the ability to spin off and start his own tribe. 


You might consider making sure you train your members to be excellent process managers before you spin them off.




Going Too Fast


can lead to spin-off problems.



Clip: http://www.robertcomptonpottery.com/


Mon, 6 Feb 2006


IVTT Meeting Feedback -
Dealing with Unwillingness

I take the Hot Seat and say I am frustrated for not generating better forms. I read about breakthrough after breakthrough on the FAQ's. I feel both envy and incompetence for not “producing” better myself.

The very experienced process manager questions my willingness – I nod and state that I am willing. He asks leading questions to assist me get into my feelings. When he asks me the questions, I know the “feeling” I am “supposed” to feel, but I do a good job of keeping the feeling held down.


I think of the feeling, but it does not produce a feeling in my stomach, shoulder, or right leg. We go back and forth a couple of times; the process manager asks if I am willing, I say yes, but I do not get into any forms.


One tribe mate sneaks over and attempts to set me off by startling me by beating his drum close to my head. It does startle me, and I feel annoyed, but I quickly manage the feeling and keep my composure. I literally have professional training in how to effectively neutralize my feelings.

We go back and forth a couple of times; the process manager asks if I am willing, I say yes, but I do not get into any forms. I summarize the feeling from around me in the [Tribe]: lack of physical forms = unwillingness. More specifically, the lack of really going with it and diving into physical forms, even subtle ones, equates to unwillingness. If this is correct, then I am unwilling.

However, during the Hot Seat I am not convinced I am unwilling, but can feel tribe members becoming impatient with my process. I concede that I am unwilling to allow the process manager to end the process.

Upon checking out, Ed says, “This is about as tough as it gets for receivers.” He adds that it is the Tribe’s role to assist me to experience my unwillingness.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Frequent willingness testing helps keep the process on track.  TTP does not cure unwillingness - it does assist people who are willing to untie k-nots.


A Tribe that persists in pushing an unwilling sender is engaging some or another drama, typically around stubbornness / authority issues.




TTP Helps Move People


from II to I

and from I to the Zero Point


TTP does not intend to move people

from III or IV.



Clip: http://www.lorober.com/Favorites/


 Mon, 6 Feb 2006



Hi Ed,

thank you for sharing your own progress on FAQ in the post " Snapshot Support".

Like I tell you before [Name] contacts me, regarding starting up a tribe in [City]. I am a little anxious to meet a stranger at his place, so I contact you before to verify he attended. You say "you might take your fear of strangers to your Tribe as an entry point".

On my way to [his] place I forget his address, so I walk down his street, miss his place and after a while find myself in a rather bad neighborhood of [City]. I am about to just go back home, but then I remember that I commit to the new tribe. I call him up and find out that I mixed up his address.

Once at his place, my anxiety lifts. I find it funny how I ended up in the wrong neighborhood for the meeting but in the right neighborhood to get in touch with some fears. These fears remind me of my childhood when I do live in a low income neighborhood .

The first meeting of this new tribe is a great success. Everybody participates and gets into some major feelings. I have a great hot seat experience as well and am glad to be part of such a great group.

Thank you for sharing your process.




When We Have Anxiety in a K-not


we do whatever we have to do

to experience it.


Clip: http://archerpelican.typepad.com/photos/


Mon, 6 Feb 2006  


General Formula


My general formula for my students is:

Follow your bliss. Find where it is,

and don't be afraid to follow it.


--Joseph Campbell

When you separate experience into bliss and non-bliss, you may invoke an implicit judgment about the non-bliss ones. 


In TTP we notice such judgments support k-nots.




Happy Dogs Don't Search for Bliss


they bring their own along

with them where ever they go.



Clip: http://hazyland.homepage.dk/


Sun, 5 Feb 2006


Enjoying Anger and Getting Free

Dear Chief

I write to say thank you again for TTP and because my experience may be helpful to others.


TTP makes an ever growing difference in my life - often with results that surprise me. I work on many issues at tribe meetings and at your seminars this last year. I feel that with each "Hot Seat" I reach deeper "Knots" that control my life. These Knots are so obvious - but only after I find them.

In a recent Hot Seat I deal with my "hidden" anger. I recall never being able to express my anger or even really acknowledging it. I cry or run away from any upsetting situation until I can "control" my feelings. As a result I am easy to manipulate and I play the victim role in all areas of my life very well.


I also now recognize this behavior as a way of blocking real intimacy with someone as well.

This recent hot seat is so far the most life changing experience I have. At the Tribe meeting I am finally willing to deal with being angry and not doing anything about it.


I start by telling the tribe about a work situation that I am angry about and almost immediately begin to choke up and then cry. I progress though various forms and I do recall sitting on the floor, wadding up napkins and throwing them in a box with gusto.


I recall this eventually feeling pretty good and laughing. But we are not done. The Process Manager continues to probe and we discover "The Judge" in my throat - deep and well entrenched. I recall doing some yelling, stomping, pounding and more yelling and at some point reach a great release.


I am fuzzy on the the details and recall only a sense of extreme exhaustion. At checkout however, I remember hearing my mother's voice sometime during the process - "proper ladies do not say things that might hurt people or make them angry - they won't like you." Well evidently this created judge in my throat prevents me for many years from saying anything about my own feelings, even when I feel angry, in fear of offending the other person or being rejected.

Well, the test comes. Two days after the Hot Seat work I have an experience with someone I like. In his actions this day I feel slighted and unimportant. At first mild annoyance and then I am angry. Before this hot seat I know the feeling of anger would have stayed bottled up - fear of rejection (especially strong with someone I care for) - but not this time. I recall allowing myself to feel the anger and then to say exactly how I feel.


I do not cry. I am new at this. I feel surprise. I feel strange and I do wonder if he is getting annoyed. I recognize that it is okay if he is. I do thank the person for receiving my anger. We hug goodbye. I feel light. I experience an acknowledgment of self. I understand more about my own desires and boundaries. I have more to learn.

I recognize this week that my interactions with all my friends are now more open and honest. The communication is more intimate as I can express how I feel about a variety of things ( joy, sadness, anger).


It opens the door if they want to share their feelings with me - and some do. I now feel even closer to my friends as I can really relax and just be me. I can also express what I want and need from them.

So for me the surprise - what starts as a hot seat about anger is evolving to much more - it is about being willing and able to express and share all my feelings. No judgment about good and bad.


I am not being mean or hurtful in sharing my feelings. I can do so calmly now. No embarrassment. No fear about rejection. What a great relief. It is about me sharing me with others. I am open and honest, I also do a better job of supporting my friends.


I believe this aha for me is on the critical path of intimacy I want in a personal relationship and in life in general. I may be just at the beginning.

It excites me personally to learn more, to continue to work on myself and to enjoy the personal growth each day. I am so grateful for TTP. I love working at Tribe and also love receiving and supporting others. I learn in this as well. What joy. Thanks again to you for making this possible and thanks to all the Tribe members for getting me to this point.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Expressing Anger Willingly


lets everyone know your boundaries


and typically eliminates the need

to act out violently.



Clip: www.pttseminars.com/ theseminar.htm

Sun, 5 Feb 2006


Noticing Positive Intentions


I am sorry for the delay in writing. I have a tight feeling in my chest that my writing has to be perfect. I am, for the first time, acknowledging that feeling and its positive intention. Wow.

First, your children are lucky to have you as a father. I am lucky to have you as a teacher.

Over the last couple of weeks since the seminar I have really noticed a difference in myself. Just the act of noticing is new to me.

My “hot seat” experience really moved me forward to my right livelihood. The process eliminated barriers to progress. The steps I have wanted to take for years are happening easily. I am now sensitive to my drama and feelings. Your technique of asking the positive intention of a feeling has also opened a whole new world to me.

My feelings are my feelings. They are not good they are not bad. They are my allies, and tools I can use to better navigate my experience.

I use the “check in” as I’m driving to work. It helps me get a better start on my day. I have also used the “check-out “ as I’m driving home. I have found both steps help build a “field of acknowledgement” with myself. I am enjoying this new relationship.

I look forward to checking back in with you as I progress.

Thank you for being so generous.

Thank you for sharing your process.



The Act of Noticing


can precipitate AHA's in any surrounding.



Clip: http://img.periskop.cz/media/


Sun, 5 Feb 2006


European Workshop


i would like to opt for The Hague or Frankfurt for a seminar.


Henri Amand

For this Workshop, I am going with London.  I recall enjoying both The Hague and Frankfurt on my travels to Europe and would also consider them for Workshops.

Sat, 4 Feb 2006

PM Takes Hot Seat


After working conducting process management on several senders with similar issues, I take the hot seat with the same issue and find the experience of doing the work myself substantively different.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Sat, 4 Feb 2006



I noticed your website does not have a “Review and Proclamations” section for 2005. Do you intend to have such a section?

Hope all is well.

The proclamations are now integral to FAQ. People are free to report proclamations and reviews at any moment of now, not just at year end.

Sat, 4 Feb 2006


Speed Rounds

I notice on FAQ, Ed a description of the IV-TT
Rapid Snapshot pre-TTP process, and that it is now
even more intense with multiple short rounds, as
against the single "longer" round from my visit there.

Thanks again for letting me visit IV-TT
in the fall.

We are now doing Snapshot Speed Rounds for critical feedback , about 1-minute per person so we can complete presentations by N members in about N2 minutes.  A group of 8 takes about 64 minutes or about an hour.  A group of 12 takes about 144 minutes or about two and a half hours.


Following the critical feedback we finish with a Champion Round in which each member presents each other snapshot as its champion.



While testing out his new cereal mix on his horse,

Dave gets some feed back.


Clip: http://www.nevtron.si/borderline/feedback.gif


Sat, 4 Feb 2006


Father and Son

Dear chief,

TTP and Breathwork is the way to go.

In the last tribe meeting I work on an issue which I have with my son and I have a tremendous experience in today's Breathwork session.


The issue with my son is that I check his homework for errors. I find one or some and my son shows me anger. I believe his anger is about me, so this causes drama. In the hot seat I experience I have different forms and experience a judge. After honoring the judge and experiencing the original form I get to the zero point. I know these dramas are not necessary anymore because the anger is not about me , it is about himself !!!

I think because of this TTP issue (father son) I think about my father and my ancestors and this leads in today's Breathwork session, which lasts about one 1 hour, to a lot of pain and tremendous forms (crying and shouting) and a relieving AHA.


I recognize that I love and miss my grandfather who dies when I am two years old. I never consciously mourned and I never thought much about him. But after the Breathwork session I cry a lot and I even have to light a candle to show me and him that he matters to me.

Best regards,

Thank you for sharing your process.




Father and Son


may create create for each other

many opportunities to grow


as they age


and eventually trade roles.


Clip: http://web.mit.edu/adorai/www/


Sat, 4 Feb 2006


Tribe Meeting

Tribe tonight was less dramatic and more serious
work reflecting a different Process Manager's influence.


I'm sure. I managed to make some good progress in the area of defensiveness in the face of anger.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Yes, Fred keeps trying to get us to experience our feelings.  When we do so willingly, we gain wisdom and grow.  Otherwise we drift off into drama.


When we learn to experience the feelings of others without becoming passive or defensive

we provide the environment in which  intimacy can grow.





Carrot Egg and Coffee


All three deal with hot water differently ...


The carrot goes limp and weak,

the egg gets an even harder shell

while the coffee

joins with and transforms the water.


Fri, 03 Feb 2006




I was advised to look into the work of Larry F. Beutler to see how his work relates to TTP.

(FEP) Focused Expressive Psychotherapy

Just passing on the info.

I am unable to tell who is advising you.  Please re-write (I was advised ...) in SVO-p.


You might consider (1) visiting the site,




and (2)  sending Larry an email inviting him to review this site and report how his work relates to TTP.

Fri, 03 Feb 2006


Professionals Respond to TTP

Hello Ed,

I have talked with a number of professionals in the Mental Health field about the theory and success of TTP. Here are a few of the responses I have received thus far:


It's unsafe to take emotionally unstable, and potentially volatile clients there. We cannot defend a program that creates inherent safety risks. Our job is to encourage clients to express themselves in a controlled and contained environment where safety risks are minimized.


The employees (inside and outside of the room) would be afraid of the clients if we allowed them to unleash their emotions in the manner you describe.


You would need people with advanced degrees to do that kind of work (PhD's and Psychiatrists).


It's been tried and proven unsuccessful. Encouraging people to actually get into their emotions in the way you describe has been proven to promote further emotional dysfunction.

My favorite response....

That's what we do every day.

Professionals A and B might consider taking their feelings of fear to the hot seat.


Professional C might take his feelings about wanting to be smart to the hot seat.


Professional D might consider re-phrasing in SVO-p so we could tell who is doing the proving - and under what conditions.


Professional E is likely unaware of the nature of TTP. TTP conflicts with some of the basic rules of Psychotherapy:



Some Basic Rules of Psychotherapy



You need an advance degree.


You have to stay in control.


You cannot afford to allow the patient to see you have your own problems.


There are good feelings and bad feelings.


You can fix people by ridding them of their bad feelings.


You can fix people by talking to people for a 50-minuite hour every so often.


If people don't improve by instruction, you can drug them into a better mood or lock them up.


If children complain about poor teaching and / or show symptoms of boredom, you can bring them into submission with Ritalin and other drugs.





Sometimes a Smile and a Hug

Does More


than 50 minutes of analysis.


Clip: http://www.bartow.k12.ga.us/psych/


Fri, 03 Feb 2006


Relentless Defiance

Hello Chief

It's amazing that when I know exactly what to do and how to act for the benefit of all concerned, I will not do it!!! Rather, I will relentlessly and defiantly try any number of alternatives that have repeatedly proven to fail.

In Atlas Shrugged, there is a reference to the fact that "man" is the only living organism that will act in a way to inhibit its growth. Man is the only living organism that will kill itself.

It's no wonder that we have such great difficulty in our
relationships, when we have the greatest difficulty with ourselves.




Sometimes People Appear


to kill themselves.




Fri, 3 Feb 2006




I'm gonna run around the streets and scare people with this one



I wonder if the scary part is the chart or you running around the streets.




The Market Can be a Scary Place


especially when Bulls and Bears

start trading Cats and Dogs.


Note: If you don't have 9 lives to spare,

employ risk control.



Clip: http://sb.typepad.com/watermark/


Fri, 3 Feb 2006


Workshop in Germany


Hi Ed,

I follow your work for a long time and would enjoy a workshop in Germany.

I'll bring in three enthusiastic people from continental Europe.

I am planning a Workshop in England ... and I am also willing to consider another on the Continent.

Thu, 2 Feb 2006


New Tribe - First Meeting


[Our] tribe had its first meeting yesterday and it went very well. There are 6 members and they all seem to be enthusiastic about the process after only one hot seat. I think this is a good illustration of the Under-Fred Network connecting people who are ready and willing to get to work.


[Name] from the [City] tribe attended and I feel that he really helped to get things going. It seems that 2 members familiar with the work are enough to get a tribe started, even if the other members are totally new to the process.

I'm just reading the new FAQ post. It reminds me that I too need a receipt for the Jan workshop and I am interested in a breathwork workshop.

If you would like a receipt, other than your own check, send me an email, with the exact receipt you want, and your address, so I can mail it back to you.




A New Tribe Meeting

is a lot like a Jam Session


It takes a couple of people

to get one going

and then everyone seems to falls in.



Clip: http://www.larryunger.net/bands/


Wed, 1 Feb 2006



Ed Says: "I am feeling relief about getting some help with all my projects and also a little apprehensive about starting new relationships."

Ed, I read this report about your snapshot and it rings a bell for me. I usually feel apprehensive about relationships that don't work at all.


I have just learned from trial and error, join and pain, to respond a little faster; but I cannot avoid the feeling of being screwed up in the aftermath anyway.

I find peace in spirituality instead, as I go through this experience of my life. I have also moved from my small hometown where there were no candidates to the TT. Now I feel like setting up a tribe where I currently live.

Thank you for sharing your process.



The Positive Intention of Worry


is to make sure things go well


Worry in a K-not

leads to drama in which

things do not go well.


Clip: http://www.balancedweightmanagement.com/


Wed, 1 Feb 2006



Dear Ed,

I completed the tutorials provided in Trading Systems Project. When is the next update to this section?

Thanks for your help.

I am gearing up to continue the series.

Wed, 1 Feb 2006


Fear of Re-Entry

My issue at the Reno seminar -- fear of re-entry.

Today ICE is the strongest position on my watch list at open.

I re-enter (after whipsawing out day before yesterday.
Entry at $52.80 at 5 minute high. Close at 55.63.

I've got a whip, and you've got a saw!

I commit to my snapshot -- Acres of Diamonds right here at home.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Getting Back in


is an essential part of Trend Following



Wed, 1 Feb 2006


Judging Judgment

Dear Ed,

I thank you for your acknowledgement of my process and I have absorbed what I consider to be your gentle prodding referred to in your statement about willingness. I have to say that I think your “meshing” of the two words “willing” and “will” is one of the most beautiful and insightful creations in your book. I am writing now to share more of my process and to ask a question.

Just half an hour ago I witnessed a wanton act of cruelty to an animal. I’ll spare the details. Seeing this ENRAGED me, and my immediate response was to go into “TTP mode.”


Instead of allowing my rage to immediately call forth a judgment I instead encouraged myself to feel the rage (I need to add here that only by reading your book could I really understand the subtle “trick” to this — the difference between feeling my feelings, whatever they were, and indulging in feeling rage PLUS judgment).


My rage was nothing small, it was WILD RAGE, and I tried to INCREASE it, and it evaporated almost immediately into a very powerful AHA experience for me, which I will now describe.

I see a major k-not for me (maybe the KING of all my k-nots!) relates to my younger days when my Dad took me hunting. I wish I could describe it as vividly as I feel it, but suffice it to say that while I loved being with my Dad and his grownup friends, and loved guns and shooting, I was deeply hurt at seeing the animals hurt, and secretly crushed and terrified at my very core to see that not only did my father show no empathy to animal suffering, but indeed seemed a bit amused by it. BUT, as a child I built my first k-not at this point and learned to live a life contrary to what my real feelings were, and became quite an avid hunter, remaining so well into my 20’s.


My only acknowledgement to my earlier feelings was to try to become as “humane” a hunter as possible. The AHA I have experienced concerning all this is seeing how this k-not has put at my very core questions about whether or not I am really a “good” person; whether I should hate people who do bad things; and most important: the secret truth that I feel like a “better” person by identifying with the victim rather than the “victor.”

All of this does, among other things, resolve itself into a question I would like your response to: are we to not “judge” anything?


In my earlier email I mentioned that judging seemed, paradoxically, to prevent learning — but that I did have a sort of feeling or impression that judging things IS learning. In my experience I KEENLY wanted to make judgments about the person who inflicted the cruelty, and about the evil of such people in general. It FEELS like a GOOD thing to make such judgments.


But I do have to admit that not making the judgment and instead feeling my feelings was very beneficial for me…and now I … well, I just don’t have any “judgment juice” about this situation any more. I guess I feel a bit lost. Aren’t we supposed to judge what is right and wrong, and try to do the right thing?

Thank you for DOING GOOD yourself!


In re-reading my earlier email I see that I may have given the impression that I am now in my 20’s and continue to hunt. For reasons of accuracy as well as all sorts of more subtle reasons I do not want that impression to stand. I am now a good deal older. I STOPPED hunting in my mid 20’s because I simply no longer was willing to ignore my real feelings. If you’ll just add this small bit to the bottom of my previous email it will fulfill my need to make things clear. Thanks

Thank you for sharing your process.


People with knots about wanton cruelty tend to notice it, over and over, until they are willing to fully experience their feelings about it.


Prohibiting judgment implies judging it. 


You might consider taking your feelings about judgment to the hot seat.




Judges Judging Judges


Each judge has a positive intention


that he can discover


by experiencing his feelings.



Clip: http://conservativecrust.com/archives/


Wed, 1 Feb 2006


251 pounds to 198 pounds

Hello support team!

As of the first day of February 2006 I report assets under management in flux.

In January I receive a commitment to raise assets from the brokerage firm I mention in previous updates. I begin the process of structuring a commodity pool. As of now, my fund offering documents are complete, my business structure is set up, and I await approval from the NFA to use the documents to solicit customers.

I anticipate beginning net assets of around $1 million dollars, and I plan to grow that number quickly upon the inception of trading. I hope to begin trading the fund by March 1. However, the actual date depends on the NFA's response time in reviewing my documents.

I also want to report progress on my health and fitness work. I perceive the July breathwork session as critical in jumpstarting progress in this area as well as with my business dealings.


So far, I am down from a beginning weight of 251 pounds to 198 pounds now. I am eating healthier (about 90% of my diet is raw and cooked fruits, vegetables, and legumes) and exercising regularly.


Currently, I walk between 20-25 miles per week on a treadmill.

I intend to continue reporting my progress until I reach USD5,000,000 in assets under management.

Thank you for your support!

Thank you or sharing your process.


Good Job !


You might consider including before and after photos of yourself - as stunning proof of your ability to stick to a winning system.





The Difference Between Left and Right


is 65 pounds


of willingness.



Clip: http://www.naturalphysiques.com/


Wed, 1 Feb 2006


Being Kind

Hi Ed,

CONGRATULATIONS!!! on spreading the word to over 130 countries. This is really something to be proud of. I know it continues to grow.

Your response to the January 18, 2006 email really hit home with me. I can relate to a lot of the same feelings of that individual. To “repay”, I commit to being a little extra kind to those around me.

I am curious, how many cords of wood did you get from the fallen trees on your property?

The Breathwork Tribe is able to convert rounds to stack-wood at the rate of about one cord per hour. At present I have about two cords in stacks and about two more still in rounds - all from five trees.




3-Foot Rounds


Chopping wood together

helps build a-cord.


Wed, 1 Feb 2006


Orgasm = Trading, According to Brain Scan


The reporter writes that Richard Dennis' $200 million fortune is due simply to an "uncanny knack for knowing when to buy and sell," ignoring system design, back-testing, position sizing and trend following, etc.


Sheeesh !




Likely the reporter is not a trader.

George Soros's son, Robert, offers his own
explanation of his father's trading success:

You know the reason he changes his position on the market or whatever is because his back starts hurting him. He literally goes into a spasm, and it's his early warning.



George Consults His Trading Computer


about when the market

is about to back off.



Clip: http://www.eorthopod.com/eorthopodV2/




Wed, 1 Feb 2006


Workshop in London: Coming July 21, 2006

Ed Says: I can post a provisional date of, say July
21, 2006 in England (or Germany) and see if anyone
signs up ... Perhaps you can suggest a site for the

I am delighted, 21st July 2006 is great.

Cambridge is 45-mins train ride from London. It is a
beautiful historic University town with lots of
facilities for running a Workshop or Conference for 30
people or more. We could hold the Workshop in one of
the Colleges either Trinity College or St Johns

I will feel honored and privileged in doing ALL the
administration work for setting it up. The College
will also provide accommodation and meals if required.
I can organize a conventional venue if that is what
you prefer, instead of a quaint old environment. By
the way Isaac Newton was at Trinity College.
Please let me know your requirements. I will make
enquiries and let you know the details.
You may have guessed I live in Cambridge. I will be
setting up a tribe in Cambridge as soon as I have
received and read your book.

I like the idea of presenting at the Crowne Plaza Hotel, near Trinity College, home of Charles Babbage, Isaac Newton, Francis Bacon, James Maxwell, Lord Raleigh, Niels Bohr, Bertrand Russell and Jawaharlal Nehru. 


Information: www.crowneplaza.com/cambridgeuk



Wed, 1 Feb 2006


re: January 30 FAQ


Question: “How can I improve my trading?”

Answer: “ Easy, clean up your personal life”