March 01 - 10, 2006
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from Ed in Red)
Thu, 9 Mar 2006
The Under Fred Network
I thought the FAQ readers may find this of interest.
I try to stay in the moment of now as much as I can. I find that when I am
in the now I am ďclearĒ. Iím quite happy to report the dramas in my life
have reduced substantially over the last 3 years.
However, this week I
involved myself in a drama that I did not handle very well. I actually
compounded the drama. I slipped back into some of my old ways. I did not
feel my feelings of anger instead I acted them out.
After this drama (which
happens maybe a couple of times a year versus before meeting you and doing
TTP it happened a couple of times a day) I received not one but two contacts
from existing Tribe Chiefs (on the same day as my drama and both unsolicited
by me) to check in with me.
The one Chief said the exact words that I needed
to hear at that moment regarding my drama. For me this is another
confirmation of the Under Fred Network at work.
I wish you continued success in your endeavors.
Thank you for sharing your process.
The Under-Fred Network
compound your dramas
untie your k-nots
dissolve your problems
Thu, 9 Mar 2006
Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate it. I search TTP. Donít find
I would like to know how one follows sound money management and build a
small account slowly.
For example, Turtle system needs 200k to even start.
[Someone] who I became friends with here in the Caribbean
says to me:
ďDonít waste your time and money on Ed. He is on a major ego trip and you
will get nothing from him.Ē
Interestingly enough this gentleman doesnít believe that psychology in
trading is important.
I study psychology on my own for several years and I couldnít agree more
It is a way to improve everything in life. I want to get involved. There are
no groups anywhere near by.
I see what you are doing and I salute you. Iíd love to get on your ĎEGOĒ
Is there any way I could do anything on my own to experience similar results
What I mean is to get through to my K-nots.
I use hypnosis CDs, relaxation CDs, Yoga and I experience many positive
Thanks very much for your time.
To practice TTP, you can start a Tribe
in your area and / or attend a Workshop.
Wed, 8 Mar 2006
New Tribe Starting Up
We have now started up the tribe in [City]. Itís amazing how good it
feels to walk on the right path. Maybe I consider the process of taking
responsibility of my own life, and starting the tribe, has contributed more
to my glorious feeling of my life than the actual process in the trading
tribe. The first, and very important, step seems to be to getting started.
We are following your guidelines exactly. We stick to the model in the
beginning and maybe we will fit it to our purpose as the process goes on.
The beginning is also about overcoming feeling of being stupid. The
most important is that the receivers are open, validating and interested.
Iíve found out that I will gain so much more insight from these people than
I first thought.
In the TTP book you describe the process of how to create forms. I was
nervous about not being able to come up with forms. It didnít seem to be a
problem once the technique was followed. At the start my forms seemed to be
very conscious but suddenly my receiver picked up some unconscious ones and
then I felt that something was actually happening Ö
I hereby declare my deepest sympathy to your work. I think this can do
miracles for those who are willing to be open-minded. It sure has helped me
improving my life.
Thank you for sharing your process.
The Smart Ones
wiling to experience
feeling of being stupid
they don't have to create drama
experience feeling stupid
outside of Tribe Meetings.
Wed, 8 Mar 2006
Old FAQ's, New Qs
I am reviewing some old FAQs and some new questions arise:
1. (FAQ 10/28/04) Ed says, "Predestination and Free Will, like Time,
do not exist in nature other than as thoughts"
I then ask you what it means that Free Will does not exist (FAQ
11/1/04), and your reply is that "Things that Exist other than as a
thought have mass, volume ..."
So if free will doesn't exist, what about feelings then? Does it mean
that feelings do not exist other than as a thought?
2. (FAQ 10/28/04) Ed says, "Reasons indicate k-nots"
How do reasons indicate k-nots? For example, I reason that if all dogs
have four legs, and that Bobby is a dog, then Bobby has four legs. How
is that a k-not? I thought k-nots are feelings that we have a judgment on that we do not accept?
3. (FAQ 10/28/04) Ed says, "You can go with the flow to achieve your
goals; you may include goal setting as part of your flow."
Are you referring to the snapshot process? But if my flow is "lazy in
exercises", how do I include goal setting (to be fit) as part of my
Thank you for the good calls on my lack
1. Feelings and Thoughts exist, in the
physical world as patterns - much as computer programs exist as patterns
of states in computer memory.
In the later case you have the mass of
the computer and the mass of the electrical charges within the memory that
determine the various states of the computer.
Your nervous system has mass and your
electrochemical transmitters have mass.
2. Justifications (reasons that people
present to justify themselves) indicate k-nots.
3. TTP and the Snapshot Process
both rely on willingness to move forward. Absent willingness, neither
seems to have much effect.
typically a team effort.
Wed, 8 Mar
Everything is Clear Now
RE: Breaking Out
Hello Ed: I wrote the message to you on Monday.
I'm no longer helpless
now. Something's happened after I wrote email to you and suddenly everything
became clear to me. I thank you for introducing this process to the public.
Other than that I must say I want to attend the IV tribe with your
permission. I look for your reply
6 Mar 2006
Commitment & Frustration
I want to share my latest hot seat experience.
After experiencing my frustration of not having regular tribe meetings when
[name] is not in [city] I find a great
location for our meetings. I feel great about this.
Before our first meeting I am frustrated with trading, I am frustrated with
my girlfriend. I am thinking about breaking up with her and getting back
together with my ex-girlfriend who I consciously know is not a good fit for
me, however I keep her in my life.
At the meeting I really experience my frustration and a few new forms come
up. Once I enjoy those forms I try to integrate them. I arrive at a familiar
form, only this time I get really into it. I am not sure if I experience all
of it, but at that point I collapse and feel exhausted. I feel relieved, and
am very glad that I get in touch with the feeling, I smile.
After the meeting I take my girlfriend to a restaurant we always talk about
going to. Afterwards we go for a walk in the snow, the city looks beautiful,
we play in the snow and have an awesome time. We spend one of our best
evenings together since we meet. I don't have any thoughts about breaking up
with her anymore. (I do however notice some feelings when I write this
sentence. It seems I have an issue committing to her.
Coincidentally I have
an issue committing to a trading system. I commit to taking this feeling
onto the hot seat in our next meeting on March 13th and reporting back to
You might consider committing to
experiencing the feeling of frustration, and locating it's positive
is just another feeling
on your emotional instrument panel.
6 Mar 2006
I have participated in the TTP
Process Since October 2005. I had a k-not about writing on FAQ but some how
it has come off. I never thought I would write to FAQ but I am sitting in my
office right now and typing this letter to you. I attend [#1] tribe every
two weeks and [#2] tribe every week. The improvement of my life is
staggering. Unbelievable yet its OK.
[#1] tribe member is only 3 members and each member gets on the hot seat
every time we meet. Each member willingly completes the forms. After the
check out we naturally sort of sit and just still out for a while until the
flow changes. We feel the network of Fred. We can hear everything around us
and its extremely beautiful. No walls. The obvious transformation of
willingness is unbelievable. There is a trend, its hitting high every time.
We feel the drumming is extremely important Ally in this process.
[#2] consists of 8 members. Not every body attends the meeting every
week. I go there every week, however I missed the meeting twice in the past.
Since I started attended the meeting I never saw more than 2 people go in to
the hot seat. However commitment is there. I'm not saying just to make my
self feel better. The Commitment is there. There is a strong bond in the
tribe. We trust this process and take this process extremely seriously.
However I feel the resistances. At check out I say " I know that we can't
say what you should or shouldn't do in this process however I feel that
there is more to this process and we should at least try to do 3 hot seat
session a night" I realize that I've always wanted to say that however I
could not say it before because I had a k-not that's was judging. After
saying that I felt the strong bond with other members.
Usually I cannot sleep at night after [#2] meeting, however I sleep very
well after [#1] meeting.
I been going through some serious changes in my life. All the sudden I get
involved with certain situation that I always and truly wanted to get
involve. Its came out of no where.
Meeting lots of new people that cherish
the same things I cherish. I feel things are about to take off. Serious
things are happening. On the other hand, small problems keeps popping up
from my past businesses and relationships that sort of keeps dragging me
Each time things come up I deal with it accordingly. However very
recently I initiated to maintain my past business to keep the cash flow
going until I get the new business going ( One that's really happening) then
the compliance tells me I can't do both so I said OK I just leave and fine
with that. So I feel extremely comfortable and start working hard for the
project. Then this morning I get a call from my old firm and says I got a
issues from old clients ( I used to loose money like water) then I was
forced to deal with the situation all morning seems like its not going away.
Then the firm I just left calls me and tells me they might be able to work
out the situation so I can work on both project.
I hope I'm not keeping you bored because there so many similar situation
that happened in one month. Worst one was this, in [#1] meeting, I get on
the hot seat and tell them that "although opportunity are flourishing right
in front of my eyes something is stopping me from making it happen, I don't
know its me or somebody that's influencing it."
I go through forms, receiver
skillfully encourages me to go through the forms. The receiver keeps saying
" who's putting the brakes!!!" Aha is that I was the one putting the brakes.
I break through to complete the form, we have a great session. Then I'm
driving home reaching 5 minutes to my house, on the highway I see yellow
light. Its extremely dark. No cars what so ever. I try to make the light say
55 miles per hour maximum allowed by the law for that particular highway and
all the sudden I see light flashes in the middle of the street.
police answering the call. He has no intention to stop I step on the break
as hard as I can and manage to not to hit the police car. He kept going.
Never gave me a ticket. It was extremely close. I go home and kept thinking
about what happen.
I guess what I'm trying to tell you is that lots of great things are
happening however equally bad things are happening as well. Almost warning
me. I kept dealing with it until today that I cannot understand what's going
on anymore and I feel extremely helpless right now.
Please understand I am extremely committed to this process. I may be doing
something wrong with the process. I feel very helpless right now because
things keeps happening faster and faster like the symmetrical triangle
pattern on the chart that could go either way.
I may be doing something wrong about the process.
May be it has to do with me attending 2 tribes, may be its my nature because
I'm mixed in 2 race(biological), I have two different cultural back ground.
My dad is always negative, my mom is always positive. I can't figure out my
I feel the need to attend the IV village tribe because I want to witness and
experience its culture, nature and depth. I feel the need for IV tribe.
I read the following books which meant great deal since Oct 05:
Total Freedom Krishnamurti
Trading Tribe Book Ed Seykota
Power of Now Ecker Tolle
I look for your permission to attend the IV village tribe wholeheartedly. I
look forward for your reply ...
Thank you for sharing your process.
See the Tribe Directory page for
instructions on how to join the IV-TT.
5 Mar 2006
Manage More and Drum Less
In my last tribe meeting we experiment with a new process on the hot seat. I
am the first one the hot seat for this experiment.
Instead of discarding the drums before the check-in, the receivers keep
drumming when I take my turn on the hot seat. When the tribe notices a form,
the intensity of the drumming really increases. Absent the process manager
directing the process and singling out forms to intensify, I feel confusion
and a little lost.
Eventually, I am feeling irritation.
I miss the verbal
interaction with the process manager. Having someone direct my process is
more productive to me. After several more hot seats, I find that a mixture
of less intense drumming and more verbal cues from the process manager produce
The issue I take to the hot seat is my displeasure with my job and employer.
I no longer work there and I am happy with my decision.
My lease on my
apartment is up and I decide that this is an opportunity to move back to my
former hometown. I am glad to be near my friends and family again. I want to
thank everyone in The Trading Tribe for their support and encouragement. I
gain invaluable insights and learn so much in my experience with the tribe.
Thank you for sharing your process.
5 Mar 2006
What Do I Mean ?
Perhaps I mean a chart created with various adjustments from X point in
time. Some of the adjustments can be cumulative going from the X (beginning)
point in time forward to adjust prices, OR the current prices can accurately
reflect today's prices and the past prices adjusted cumulative back to the
beginning point in time. I don't think your asking "how" a back adjusted and
forward adjusted chart is created, I know you know that. Either I am
ignorant as to what I am talking about, or am unclear as to what your
asking; probably both. What DO I mean by a back and forward chart?
I don't know either.
5 Mar 2006
You Ain't Fooling Me.
Spent some time reading some of the stuff on your web site and came to a few
- You are a frustrated engineer and you express your frustration in an
arrogant manner. Your theory about radial momentum obviously didn't convince
the scientific community. Unless of course that community is wrong, short
sighted and you are not.
- The bit about trading, the technical bit is absolutely terrible. You
don't even understand the concept of trends. You don't even know
TradeStation and a few others, not to mention momentum indicators.
- Your section on "psychology2 is a joke. Yet you criticize
psychotherapists as being people who trap their clients and you come up with
another joke of a theory. On top, you "offer" consultations.
- On breathing you even ignore some very basic stuff on abdominal
breathing which is more than one thousand years old.
And so you are the Ed Seykota which Schwager and the industry has
constructed? Really? Oh man ... You ain't fooling me.
Stick with the
peasants that write for you and which you like to publish. You and them are
right for each other including your silly theories.
Nice to find out about "Ed Seykota".
By the way, the guy whom you promote, that Covel guy, owns an online
pharmacy and has never traded ...
Calling names and hurling insults
typically indicates k-nots about anger and frustration. Thinking that
people are trying to fool you may indicate k-nots about fear. You might consider taking your
feelings to your Tribe as entry points.
One Man's Insult
might be another man's
4 Mar 2006
I notice that when studying any tough topic (such as programming), it is
important to take advantage of the initial feeling of curiosity from
learning something new. This helps the information flow quite easily.
However, practice makes perfect not just skimming through. From my
perspective, I catch myself leaving unfinished work out of boredom or simply
being stuck - I also sometimes catch myself sitting all day trying to solve
just one problem out of stubbornness. Tell us, is frustration in the
learning process inevitable - much like muscle pain in the gym?
What do you suggest: going with the flow of curiosity and hoping to cycle
through the material several times to make perfect or to use willpower to
get to the bottom of things before moving on?
I wonder if you have any specific learning style (system) for studying and
acquiring knowledge. I suppose you are quite aware of how you manage loads of
information and then use it to your means. Do you meditate, set yourself in
a trance before work? Do you rehearse your goals? Imagine you're an Einstein?
Calm yourself down with 40 pushups?
What "template" questions do you ask yourself when solving any general
problem? Or do you just sit and smile and see what comes up? What's your best
excuse for not doing the work? - and for doing it?
I understand that everyone is unique and does things differently - however I
believe it was you who was coming up with general ideas for ed-ucation any
have a nice day
Curiosity is a feeling that impels the
search for information. It typically involves tension, anxiety and
Wonder is a feeling that seems to come
up gently and pleasantly when something new and amazing appears.
Curiosity is an active search for
information whereas Wonder is a willingness to allow something else to take
Being full of wonder is, well,
... wonder ...
3 Mar 2006
FYI re FAQ's
Dear Chief Seykota,
In honoring my commitment to read your FAQ's from the bottom up,
I run across one of my favorite quotes of all time, about the power of
commitment, attributed to Goethe.
A two-year investigation by The Goethe Society of North America finds
that the quotation in question is actually the work of mountaineer W.H.
Murray, from his 1951 book, The Scottish Himalayan Expedition.
The last two lines, which Murray attributes to Goethe:
Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it!
... were never written by Goethe, and are thought to be paraphrased
from Goethe's Faust.
Regardless, powerful words.
Just last week I wrote to a friend that, through TTP, I observe that
when a clearly stated positive intention is backed by commitment,
you are quickly treated to the privilege of experiencing the truth in
W. H. Murrayís treatise on Commitment and Providence:
A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising
in oneís favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings
and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed
would have come his way.
seems to have the knack
of taking credit, posthumously,
for the relatively recent sayings of ...
W. H. Murray
2 Mar 2006
Dear Ed and friends,
I just got word from [name] that Harry Browne died yesterday. I am
deeply sadden by this news. I was just talking to [name] yesterday and
both of us talked about calling him ... It was reading Harry Browne's book
"You Can Profit from a Monetary Crisis" that caused me to make my first
investment -- in a silver dollar! He was a brilliant thinker, a great
writer, and a friend ... he was suffering from some rare
Thinker, Rebel, Libertarian,
The United States of America
is evolving to the Nanny State
according to Harry.
2 Mar 2006
Trading Tribe Workshop near London
I am in for the
Yes. Me too.
2 Mar 2006
Starting a Tribe
The contact listed for my area [city] does not participate in TTP.
would like to commit to starting a community. I don't know how long it will
take for participants to join, so I will seek out another community in which
participate in the meantime.
Thank you for all of your efforts on behalf of others.
When you are ready to form a Tribe, let
me know so I can post your listing on the Directory Page.
2 Mar 2006
The directory is now current through February 21,
My details are not in the directory.
Could you please add my details, as per my request of 16th Feb.
OK. From time to time I get a little
behind in my work.
sometimes get a little behind
2 Mar 2006
I have a couple of questions, maybe you could kindly provide some food for
1) If we have a long-term reversal system (say 300/150 EA) and we trade 20
futures markets with this, how can we deal with the initial stage when we
start out with a 0% portfolio heat? That is to say, if we use crossovers
instead of eg. fast EA > slow EA , the system may need to "warm up"
year to get crossover signals across all 20 markets and reach the desired
If we use the "higher/lower than" rule, then we might be buying/selling all
markets in mid-trends (however the portfolio heat is reached in one day).
I suppose the crossover method makes more sense - but what to do with the
awaiting risk amounts - stuff the holes with stocks?
2) How do you deal with client money withdrawal / additions? Withdrawals look
a bit easier - adjust the positions relative to the amount withdrawn - but
adjusting position size based on additions (loading more lots) might get us
in mid-trend (again) that might impede system performance - so what can one
do to balance the portfolio based on the system indications (other than
being so incredibly influential so that the clients do not add or withdraw
in the first place)?
The idea is to be as close to hypothetical system performance as close as
ps. just for fun, interested in the true definition of self-reference see:
You might consider using standard
trading terms - or at least defining all your original terms and phrases.
For example, I find these obscure:
crossovers instead of EA > MA
system warm up
desired portfolio heat
higher / lower than rule
awaiting risk amounts
stuffing the holes
loading more lots
based on system indications
hypothetical system performance
If You Intend to Run
might be prudent
get on the same track
with the rest of the industry.
Thu, 2 Mar 2006
Message From Van Tharp
Please find attached a couple of paragraphs for the upcoming book and the
questions for you.
We would certainly credit both you and your website in the book.
My only concern is that the book will not be released until November and
with the questions and answers already on line, many people could just cut
and paste them and use them elsewhere and they would not be regarded as
anything ďnewíĒ for the book.
Would you consider holding off putting them on line until November when the
book is released? Or if this is not favorable, would you please include
Van Tharp's name and our website:
when referring to the interview. Thanks for
On another note, we recently had [a person] attend one of our
workshops in [city] immediately after working with you. He talked very
highly of you and of his experience.
----- The Questions -----
Position sizing is by far the most important aspect of your trading system.
Itís basically that part of your trading system that maximizes your
probability of meeting your trading objectives. As an example, I once worked
with a hedge fund that used a simple futures trend-following method as their
system. That system was the basis for the performance of three different
funds that they had Ė a growth fund that was designed to make as much money
as it could; a conservative fund that was designed to make 15% each year;
and a balanced fund that was a mixture of the two. The primary difference
between the three funds that they had was that each had a different
position-sizing algorithm. Thatís how important position sizing can be.
Position sizing is not something that is widely discussed. You wonít find
books on the topic. And most of the insights that Iíve gained about position
sizing has come from the seminal work of three Market Wizard traders, Ed
Seykota, Tom Basso, and William Eckhardt. As a result, I thought it would be
exciting to talk with each of them about this particular topic.
Letís start with Ed Seykota who first introduced me to the idea of trading
the marketís money at a different level of position sizing than oneís core
equity. By marketís money, Ed means your profits. The two key elements of
marketís money are 1) the position sizing algorithm that you use and 2) when
you decide that marketís money is now part of your core equity.
Ed, very few people understand how important position sizing is to your
success. Yet, you were a computerized trend-follower back in the 1960ís who
totally understood the importance of position-sizing on your equity growth.
Ed, how did you first get introduced to the concept of position sizing. Who
taught you? How did you learn about it?
How did you come up with the idea of treating marketís money differently
than your core equity? Where did the idea of marketís money come from?
Iíve played around with the topic a lot and there seem to be two key
variables: 1) when marketís money becomes part of your core equity; and 2)
how you treat (position size) the marketís money.
I know you typically have treated marketís money as separate from your core
equity. When do you typically make it your money? Never? At the end of the
year when you pay taxes on it? What have your thoughts been about the topic?
And how many different ideas have you had about when marketís money becomes
To help people determine what position sizing algorithms to use, weíve used
simulators. What have you done? In other words, how do you determine what
position sizing algorithm to use with your core equity?
How do you determine what position-sizing algorithm to use with the marketís
When you adopt the idea that you could have a mathematical algorithm to
determine markets money, itís suddenly possible to have a huge number
(perhaps infinite number) of algorithms to determine whatís the marketís
1) What ideas have you played around with respect to marketís money?
2) What have your conclusions been?
Have you played around with any other significant ideas in terms of position
sizing besides marketís money? If so, what are they?
If you could give me ten rules to consider with respect to position sizing
what would they be?
You might consider taking your feelings
of "wanting to hold back answers so you have something new" to a tribe as an
Now, on to your questions:
I do not hold any one element, such as
position sizing, to be the most important element in trading.
Nor do I hold any one body organ to be the most important in maintaining
life. I tend to see things in the context of their surrounding system, not
as disparate elements.
The concept of dividing your equity into
"market's money" and "core equity" (my money?) does not ring a bell.
To me, core equity = total equity minus
risk-to-stops. Thus, if you base your positions on core equity, you
avoid losses in one instrument stopping out and forcing liquidation of other
The notion of "market's money" seems to
be some kind of proxy for whether the position is showing a profit or loss.
While profit-or-loss that might be an
important psychological factor to some traders who have k-nots about being
right (showing a profit) I do not find it particularly useful in trading.
"Playing around" with "when market money
becomes your money" seems to be an exercise in math-turbation.
I don't know what you mean by playing
around with ideas. I feel you either think things through or you
Ten rules for position sizing:
1. Bet high
enough to make meaningful profits when you win.
2. Bet low
enough so you are ok financially and psychologically when you lose.
3. If (1) and
(2) don't overlap, don't trade.
4. Don't go
adding a bunch of rules that don't work, just so you have ten rules.
Van Tharp's Web Site
(by request of Van Tharp)
Dedicating to Cutting Edge,
and High Quality ...
except, it appears,
a few small problems
the home page
Wed, 1 Mar
Ed Iím trying to follow your trading system project, thank you for share
your knowledge whit us. Iím trying to improve my programming skill and I
bought the book you recommend by Jesse Liberty, but when I was reading the
second day of the first week, Iíve read your answer to an e-mail: FAQ Tue,
17 Jan 2006 Ed says: ĒIf you are starting from scratch, you might consider
I would like to suggest you to ad a new book recommendation of C# in
your web, maybe someone, like me, is willing to start the programming for
the TSP and I think it will be better start in C#, as you recommend.
Thank you for the suggestion. A book on
C# now appears at the book link at resources, above.
C# > Java
solving the Sun/Unix problem
Wed, 1 Mar 2006
Dollars Up and
Hello support team!
As of the first day of March 2006 I report assets under management still in flux.
My fund setup is complete, and I have a selling agreement in place with
the brokerage firm that is raising money for my fund. Right now I am
working with those brokers to market the fund to meet the escrow amount.
I anticipate meeting that amount within a week or so. I plan to begin
trading the fund sometime before mid-month.
My vision is to have $1 million in the fund by the end of the month, and
to grow that to the $5 million Breathwork commitment level as quickly as
My physical fitness program is on track as well. I now weigh 194 pounds,
and I am sticking to my fitness system of eating and exercising
Thank you for your ongoing support!
Thank you for sharing your process.
Quick Weight Loss
Slow methods typically involve
more exercise, less food
willingness to deal with feelings
sticking to a system.
Wed, 1 Mar 2006
Health Care Dramas
I wonder if the real burden on the health care system is emotional knots and
Smoking, overeating, alcohol and drug abuse all seem to be
forms of drama and a prolific source of health problems in our country.
Injuries from crime and accidents only add to the drama induced demands.
Maybe we need more Tribes and less doctors?
Savvy doctors are very aware of the
psychological components of physical illness.
Tribe of Doctors