Ed Seykota, 2003 - 2006 ... Write for permission to reprint.

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November 01 - 16, 2006


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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Thu, 16 Nov 2006



Hi Ed!

I can't find my question on the FAQ-pages so I resend it, again.

I'm currently trying to feel the feeling I get when you don't put my contribution on your site. I feel a little sad. It's like you're trying to avoid my mails, and that hurts but as I write this it feels like I'm getting over it. This is my third attempt to get my message through. Fred tells me that I should communicate this so I do just that. I hope you will receive it.


At spare time I try to catch up with everything you write at your homepage and I admit it's tough :-)
I guess it takes a whole lot of time to read and answer all questions you get.

I have been diversifying my investments lately to different places where it feels good and where I can stay in the long run.


I only have one third of my capital under own management. But still my most interesting investment has not been done - and that is with you Ed. Do you have any minimum amounts that is required, if you accept new investments?


I know you want people that supports your trading and I have that intention. Even more so, I really would like to know you because I get so inspired by you, but US is far from where I live - so I stick to read your materials and send emails once in a while.

I also wonder about the books you are in progress with. I'm very eager to read them as soon as they are finished. I really like your Trading Tribe book. Maybe I should read it a third time;-)

Our Trading Tribe is in progress, but we're actually still only two persons. We are both very dedicated and have hoped to get requests from more people but it has been silent since the start in 2005. Instead I have tried to build up Snapshot processes with different friends that are complaining about not fulfilling their ambitions. It is working quite well and I get to receive and send more.

Thank you for sharing your process.


I am currently not accepting accounts or associates, although I am open for an apprentice.




Here's the Deal


click here



Clip: http://www.lewrockwell.com/


Wed, 15 Nov 2006


Question about Rocks


Well, you and I have talked about the rocks process and you have sited some examples from my own childhood and life experiences. I have read your essays, and the case histories / examples from your site. And I have to tell you, It doesn't resonate with me.

I think what I am hearing is that we get certain maladaptive coping behaviors from our parents / upbringing / training that teach us to behave in certain ways when confronted with similar feelings as we go forward.


Intellectually, that makes sense to me, but where I get confused is on the process. I don't know how I would be able, when inflamed, to pinpoint the exact time at which I accepted that pattern of behaviors as a coping style.


Additionally, as I watched my parents and their lives and how badly things went for them, I rarely chose to emulate them, so any behaviors I took away from my upbringing was to do the opposite, as I usually didn't want what they had, so I didn't do what they did.


Most of the positive gains I have made in my life have been through a type of cognitive behavioral "self therapy" and recognizing that certain ways of thinking produce certain feelings, and if the feelings are counter-productive to my goals, I can always choose to think a different way. Voila! a different set of feelings!

That probably makes you cringe.

Anyway, I told you I would get back to you on this and I wanted to at least start the dialogue. I am having a bit of a down day, and trying to change my mental state as we speak. So, I will be getting in the tub shortly, and reflecting on what I can change and what I should just leave alone and feel.

Thank you for your questions.


You are correct, we do not apply the Rocks Process "on the fly" to cope with situations as they happen.


We apply it in a Tribe Meeting as a tool to review situations and reaction patterns and to develop new learnings.


The Rocks Process does not deal directly with conscious choices.  It deals with behavior patterns that we adopt during times of crisis, on a gut level, usually in childhood.


Through role playing, we are able to excite the forms and muscle memories that contain the patterning - and implement new learnings at these same locations.


We use Rocks as physical representations of the old and new learnings.




A Rock


can serve as a physical representation

of reaction patterns


Clip: http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/


Mon, 13 Nov 2006


Money Management


Thank you for your response.

Ideally, and at the risk of making an audacious suggestion, I would like you to be my financial partner. As I imagine it, the two of us would create a partnership (as informal or formal as you wish, as simple or complex as you wish). I would invest $50,000 (the maximum amount that I should responsibly invest, based on the criteria you previously shared with me). You would invest $250,000 or any other amount you believe is required or desirable. You would have maximum flexibility. You would set the terms of the partnership and manage the partnership as you deem appropriate. You could add or not add other partners, at the inception or thereafter, as you wish. You could run the partnership assets independently or jointly with other investments, etc., etc., as you see fit. Period.

It has been my goal to invest with you for approximately two to two and one half years. The above is the only solution that I can think of. However, If the above described arrangement is not workable for you but you believe there are other ways for me to achieve my goal of investing with you, I am open to your suggestions.

Thank you for your consideration.

Thank you for your offer.


Your 50/250 proposal does not fit with my investment style.


To invest with me, you might consider following along with FAQ and investing your time and energy into developing your skills and sharing your gifts with others.



Mon, 13 Nov 2006

Hi Ed,

the following link doesn't work anymore:


I now have commitments to work with some people and I wish to focus on them.

Mon, 13 Nov 2006


Feedback on Rocks Process:

Things are going better with Friends, Kids and Wife


I  had an amazing weekend with some incredible things happening since our tribe meeting! I need to tell you ... about it. I returned home as you know very late on Friday night EST. I found an email waiting for me on Saturday morning from one of my best clients (we have a very close emotional connection). Well, he's a radiologist, incredibly successful, and has been struggling with a death from someone very close to him (just happened over the last weeks time and was a shocking type of death). He was communicating with me to tell me of the challenges he was facing emotionally around this persons passing - he was reaching out to me totally out of the blue I believe because we have such a strong bond. Needless to say, I have reached out to him and I want to tell you more ...You folks helped me more in 11 hours than 2 years of
professional coaching and counseling from some highly compensated specialists. I feel
strong as a freight train right now! I can't thank the tribe enough for the time and effort you all put forth into my situation!

My experience was unbelievable and the last few days have been really cool:

My weekend was full of opportunities to communicate with my family (wife and children) as well as friends and clients. It has been a terrific way to put to use my new tools in my tool box and skills for my skill set. Unbelievable how my positive energy and intentions could be put to great use with someone I genuinely care about and how my new rock was ready at my disposal-all those new skills I literally put into practice within hours of getting off my plane!!

Secondly, I spent lots of time with my two boys on Saturday and Sunday and had a breakthrough [My younger son] often gets frustrated at his older brother and will lash out physically on him. I started right in on asking about the feelings he was feeling and did not let up until he talked about the pain in his belly and his head and the true feeling of sadness - not anger that he was feeling (which I always thought it was anger - that he was just mad at his older brother). Not the case, he is feeling sad because he feels left out and misses out on doing things with his older brother and friends. We now work on those sad feelings of being "left out" and are making headway on working through them and communicating those feelings back to brother.


Both boys thought Daddy was acting weird on Saturday and that I was trying to embarrass them by talking about all of our feelings and how it was just fine to yell and scream and cry and let all those actions fly. The literally thought I was bonkers or at the very least something was different in a positive way.

Lastly, I am better able to listen and hear what my wife is saying and feeling. We had a chance to discuss my new career opportunities and I was truly able to hear her words and feel her feelings. We cried together, felt sad together, and also came to the decision making process together as one and felt better about it all. We are also beginning the process of positive visualization for our new baby on the way and working closely with other friends and family that will be involved at delivery to do the same. We are all able to discuss our feelings around it better than before mostly because I am in a better spot emotionally, physically, and mentally than I was before. I understand the risks and am ready for what life brings on.

Bless you all for me new rock! A note of caution here. All things being said I still have been in deep thought over the last few days. If I did not have the new rock I think I would have felt like I got something off my chest but did not have any new positive direction from there. The new rock and the role play of putting it to use are essential to closing the loop on this process. And what a process it is!


Thank you for sharing your process.


For more on Rocks, see the link above.

Mon, 13 Nov 2006


Payment in Gold

Thank you for having another Trading Tribe Seminar. My husband and I are very excited about attending this event.

I have a question, though. We do not have checking accounts. Most of our dealings are done in gold. Could we send you American Gold Eagles to hold our spots in class and bring you the cash upon our arrival? Normally, I would not mind sending money orders but we have experienced a momentary decline in our cash flow due to the construction of our new building and a new engine in our Excursion. (But we are debt free :))

If this is acceptable, may I ship to you the week of Thanksgiving? I am leaving for London tomorrow and will not be back in the states prior to the 22nd. If there is a time constraint I do have a friend that is in your area, who knows you, that can deliver the gold in person, if necessary.

Please let me know your decision as we are very dedicated to taking this journey.

Yes, that works for me. 


If everyone were follow your example, and settle all accounts in gold, government work would not be nearly as lucrative




Five Dollar Gold Eagle Coin


runs about $89 at a coin dealer.


89:5 => 94% inflationary skid.


Clip: http://www.savoncoins.com/


Sun, 12 Nov 2006


Ed Seykota Interview

Hi Ed:

Our subscribers would enjoy an interview with you.

I've enclosed the questions that I would like to ask.

If you're comfortable answering them -- just send them back in a reply email.

The interview will be featured in our magazine in about a week.

Thanks you!


1) When and where did you start trading commodities?

2) It has been said that you pioneered computerized trading - now known as system trading - back in 1970. Is that true and can you tell us about your first computerized trading system?

3) In Jack Schwager's book Market Wizards you mentioned "Win or lose, everybody gets what they want from the market". Can you explain what you meant by that statement?

4) Your "Turtle Trading" approach to the markets is legendary. A quick search of that term on Google would keep a person busy for hours. What is Turtle Trading and how can traders benefit from it?

5) Being a trend follower - can you tell us about specific markets where the trend is intact or has reversed?

6) Where can our reader's go to learn more about you or your Trading Tribe workshops.

Here are some answers to your questions.  You may direct your readers to this site to see them.


1. Early 1970's


2. Trend Following - similar to Donchian's 5/20 system.


3. Yes, I explain it over and over in this column.


4. You might check with Richard Dennis or Mike Covel.   They handle Turtles. I do Rocks and Drums.


5. All markets have periods of trending and reversal.


6. Check this site, and the links above.




Sun, 12 Nov 2006



I have read about people that mentioned being an apprentice for you for about 5-6 months. I would be interested in something like this.

You can figure on lots of work, back-testing ideas, implementing them and doing odd jobs, in exchange for room and board.

Sun, 12 Nov 2006


Reaction to Picture of Man

Hi Ed,

I hope you are doing fine.

I am really grateful for your ideas and comments of Oct 15. Seeing the picture of this beautiful young guy I had to realize that again I showed a very strong reaction just the contents of the reaction were different.

The last months I had a hard time in my firm. I actually lost my job but I am still sitting there and get paid due to a very strict labor legislation in

I really thought the whole thing has nothing to do with me because I am just sitting at my computer and I am trading. Actually that was not the fun sort of trading I have to admit.

Now I realize that I was really hurt by the behavior of my bosses and the management of the firm.

"Trading" was just dimming away the issue, but the issue was working somewhere in the background leaving a trace of "being a rock", not feeling very much. Now I felt the hate towards my bosses.

The days afterward I realized a huge change, I was friendly and lovely in dealing with the people and actually feeling it being friendly and lovely.

Right now my head invents new stories about what people are doing to me, but the loveliness is still there. Feels great and much younger :-)

I also had to recognize that actually I was projecting my issues in this young lad. Something like hating men. I had the opportunity to recognize that this is a result of the situation at my workplace. The guys kicking out people are male.

Apparently, the young lad on the picture has nothing to do with my workplace, but I put it in his face.

"Trading" didn't really help not to feel the situation.

"Trading" helps a lot in getting out there and working from at home.

Thanks a lot for your inspiration, dear Ed.

PS. I didn't manage to have a tribe but managed to have some drinking and dancing with a friend last night working on the real-time sexual matters with some handsome Brazilian guy :-) After two drinks I really got into it ;-) What are computers?

Really grateful for your inspiration, dear Ed.

You might consider taking your feelings about men to a Tribe Meeting.




Men Have Bodies, Too


Clip: http://www.ratsoringo.com/category/


Sat, 11 Nov 2006



Ed Seykota,

I see you are dealing with some of the same problems as I.


Engineers tell me my design is an impossibility using poor arguments as you have seen.


I have been searching for a web sight which describes Bernoulli as a function of force vectors when I found yours.


I believe the drop in pressure is a matter of the molecules hitting the surface a different angle due to the fluid having a velocity.


As any pool player can tell you when you hit the ball on the edge it moves slower than it would when hit straight on.


That tells me what I agree with about Bernoulli.

Collision does not explain pressure drop.  It explains how molecules strike the bottom of the wing and push it wing up.  Radial Momentum explains pressure drop.




On the Pool Table and in Childhood


if you get hit

you are likely to pass it on.


Clip: www.saccosbowlhaven.com  

Sat, 11 Nov 2006



Dear Mr. Seykota,

I would like to personally congratulate you on your tremendous success throughout your life. As a relative newcomer to the world of trading and a soon to be graduated engineer, I was deeply inspired by the section devoted to you in "Market Wizards" by Mr. Schwager.

I admire your creativity and insight into creating trading systems that are not only profitable, but also compatible with one's own trading style. As I continue to learn about the markets and develop my own trading systems I will look to your success as both a guide and inspiration. Since I discovered trading last December I truly believe I have found not only my calling, but something I am extremely passionate about.

Thank you again for your contribution to this field. Best wishes.

Thank you for the acknowledgment.

Thu, 9 Nov 2006


Tribe Work Pays Off

Girlfriend Likes Him Better

Hi Ed,

my girlfriend gives me a card the other day. I want to share a few lines with you.

"I just want to let you know that I've noticed a huge change in you over the past few weeks/months. You are more open, less judgmental, more sincere, more honest, more flexible, more thoughtful. You seem more connected in all of your relationships & they seem more meaningful than ever."

"You seem less scared about any commitments that might develop along the path."

"I now feel like I can tell you everything, be all-the-way myself & count on you to give me what I need - now more than ever."

This card surprised me and makes me feel proud and thankful.

Thank you Ed!

Thank you for sharing your process.



Getting Clear


has its rewards.


Clip: http://www.lincroftvillagedental.com/


Tue, 7 Nov 2006


Update on Rocks Process

Just as an update. I am totally relaxed with conflicts right now. Does not even raise my pulse.

Great. Thank you

Thank you for sharing your process.



Extreme Relaxation


typically follows the Rocks Process.


Clip: http://www.beachlodge.co.nz/relax.htm

Tue, 7 Nov 2006


Sex and Candy

Hi Ed!

Hope you've had a nice vacation.

One thing I have found is that after a Trading Tribe meeting my following day seems to be very unstable.


I often feel more secure and certain before, than after a tribe meeting. Maybe I want to show a good record on the meeting and afterwards I lose my discipline. Nevertheless my long-term life performance is definitely on it's way up. TTP has helped me a lot.

I saw that someone wrote that they cover your pictures of the TTP printouts. I do the same, especially naked women and other very emotional pictures. Sometimes I read it during my lunch and I like it a lot, but I'm still very dependent on what other people think.

My latest feelings concerns frustration regarding to less sex. I'm a happy father of a six month baby boy and everything is great except to less physical interaction / affection with my wife. It even seems to be a growing issue since I started to get rid of my overeating habits. Very active training habits has made it possible to eat a whole lot of candy without anything showing on the outside, but it has always felt very bad on the inside.


Before, I could block my feelings with candy, but since my TTP and snapshot-processes I really try to avoid it.

In my progress I try to recognize when I have a K-not. Actually it's almost every time I get a strong feeling. Right now my k-nots seems to regard: food, candy, sex, demands from someone, people who don't listen, people who don't validate,

On last thing to report is that I have plans to send you an email every month. I also send my snapshot to 4 people every Friday, and receive theirs afterwards. None of them are familiar with TTP.

Thank you for sharing your process.



Queen Victoria


pioneers the Victorian Era

and extends the joy of sex

by forbidding it.


Clip: http://victorian.fortunecity.com/whistler/23/

Sun, 5 Nov 2006

Limit up Moves and New Volume's Record

Hello Ed,

whenever there's new record of volume in a commodity does it mean that demand is bigger than supply or vice versa? And when market goes limit up 3 days in a row does it mean the move will last or it won't?

thanks so much in advance!

Trend Traders do not try to predict the non-existing future or to trade in "advance."




Psychics Who Use Crystal Balls


still have to use them

in the now.


Clip: http://www.historyoftheuniverse.com/


Thu, 2 Nov 2006


Progress Report

Dear Ed,

Yes, I am still here. This is a progress report for the Tribe. I have made progress in some areas but am still stuck in other areas.

We have not had a Tribe meeting here for about two months. I waited to write sooner hoping to have a few more meetings. The last two meetings we had were very intense and meaningful in my opinion. Everyone present gave excellent support. I still feel the reverberations from the last meeting!


Trading was going well until I went crazy for 2 weeks. I turned an approximately 40% gain into a 25% loss. As of tonight though I am on the comeback only down 15% now. I was down about 25% 2 weeks ago. A few Tribe members supported me by e-mail and helped me to stop my insanity!

I cannot find a satisfactory steady job. Came close to really hitting a home run 3 times though. 2 of the jobs would increase my highest salary by 7 fold! The job would not be trading related and thus allow me to trade my own account freely. I may still be in the running for those jobs although it has been a while since I interviewed. It has been more than two years without formal work. I am feeling extremely Pressured and Hot!

I have received no feedback from tribe members I will try to contact them a few more times and see if we can get steady meetings going.


I have written forty pages of a success / motivation book and have received very good feedback from it!

Could not run more than 3 1/2 miles when I was in my twenties. Recently jogged a little more than 5 miles without stopping 4 or 5 times so far. I am now 38 years old and on an endurance uptrend!

My lungs and heart feel very good and strong. Sometimes when I breath I can feel my strong heartbeat! I feel like I am breathing more oxygen with every breath!

Bench pressed 245 pounds 2 times easily yesterday. I was afraid to do more because I want to stay injury free. I have not done that weight since I was in my early 20s.

I look and feel more physically fit.

Question: What was the Incline Village solution for when someone wants to slap their own head? I think a member said he remembered when his father hit him in the head when he was little? I think someone did that to me also but I cannot remember who?


When I am messing up my trading and not progressing with a job I get really mad at myself and I feel like really hitting myself in the head with a forceful slap / hit. I actually did it a few times and stopped myself because it was so hard.


I feel like I could actually kill myself with a single blow. Maybe I cannot remember because they hit me so hard I blacked out? I am wondering if it was my father mother or one of my brothers? Did Incline use a pillow or something.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Plus 40 to minus 25 to minus 15 in a few weeks seems like another form of slapping yourself.


At the Incline Village Tribe, we are using the Rocks Process to deal with such behavioral patterns.  You might consider attending a Tribe Meeting here or attending a Workshop.




If You Wish to Receive a Slap


you usually have to show up

to collect it in person.




For dubious advice

on setting limits

see this clip.



Clip: http://www.geocities.com/


Wed, 1 Nov 2006


Rocks Weekend

I have a question about the upcoming weekend. Since the price includes food, lodging and the workshop do you make the hotel reservations or do we?

I handle the food, lodging and making the reservations.


All you have to do is show up.

Wed, 01 Nov 2006


Model Account Heat

Hi Ed,

For your famous "model account" what level of heat was used?

The design invites drawdowns of 50%.

Wed, 01 Nov 2006


www.EdSeykota.com  is dormant


Thank you for the Trading Tribe site and your willingness to maintain it.

since the web site outage, I check this site regularly for new postings to FAQ:


but none appear.

today I try:


and alas, new FAQ's appear. I realize that I've been monitoring the wrong site.

You may want to consider setting up pages  to redirect traffic so visitors can find the active site.

Thank you for the suggestion.


www.EdSeykota.com  is a backup site for this site. 


The vector is now in place.

Wed, 1 Nov 2006

Sticking to the System

As of November 1, 2006 my fund's AUM are US$2,000,000. October's performance is negative, and during the month I raise an additional $25K for the fund.

Everything seems to be on track concerning my business and fitness snapshots with one exception.


I consciously intend to produce positive trading performance, and since the inception of my fund in May performance is negative. This fact spurs me to review my system, my testing and system building procedures, and recent price action of the markets I follow. Upon review I can find no flaw in the system or the procedures I use to build and test it. I also find no data to support a hypothesis that the markets have changed in such a way that invalidates the edge of my system.


My review indicates that I am going through a losing period that, though unpleasant, is within normal operating parameters for my trading program.

I plan to continue following my system, thereby fulfilling my intention to build a profitable trading business with a positive track record.

I commit to continue to report my AUM on the first of each month until I manage $5,000,000. Thank you for your continuing support.

Trending markets are generally favorable for a trend following approach.




If You Commit to a Plan of Action

that includes risk control


your best move during down moves

is usually to stick to the plan.