(Quotes from Ed in Red)
Sat, 28 Apr
Can you please update the Donchian 6 Month Rule system back test on your
charts server area? I hope all is well with your Trading Book project, I
imagine writing a book is a rather taxing (and illuminating) experience;
I look forward to it. Keep up the good work, you are a bright guiding
light showing people how to be what they intend.
Thank you for your encouragement. I
plan to update the Donchian page whenever I do it.
Fri, 27 Apr
I once developed a friendship with a guitarist whose ability and talent
I admired. Unfortunately the man died in his late 40's and I lost a
friend and mentor. I haven't seen this months posting on FAQ, and I'm
concerned about you.
You might consider taking your
feelings about your mentor to Tribe.
Evidently, We Are All Still Alive.
and intending to die.
Fri, 27 Apr
For Whom is This Site
I just discovered your site. (I actually felt sad reading through the
pages) I'm off to find your book. Is your site only for those who are
established traders or for those who are learning and beginning a new
journey in trading?
It's for you.
Thu, 26 Apr
Targets and Blow Outs
My trading target is 200 pips per month net of costs so I fall short mainly due to
two separate ‘blow outs’. Had those been contained to my ‘normal’ loss
parameters I would have met my target. This reinforces in me that stops
must be obeyed. I am yet to write down exactly what my system is.
Once again I see bigger
trends are where the fortunes are made.
The trend is my friend, but which one I wonder. One is going to be a
truer friend than the other; something has to give.
Trading targets are incongruent with
Trading targets are congruent with
Using Trading Targets
can turn you into one.
Thu, 26 Apr
If I had
How much would it cost me, if I had the money (^_^), to learn how to
trade directly from Ed Seykota? :)
It would likely cost you less than
continuing to trade without (1) a plan and (2) the willingness to stay
with your plan.
Wed, 25 Apr
Pullback: Sees Run to 40
see previous: Buying Panic
Even after the pull-back I still have a double in [Stock]. It's
a couple of downgrades on valuation recently - it looks to me like its
setting up for a run to 40. I may add more when it breaks out from the
Thank you for continuing to report
your trades and feelings in real-time.
Circle Indicates Date of Writing to FAQ
Looking for an advance to 40.
Tue, 24 Apr
TTP matches Jung's perspective
"The foundation of all mental illness is the avoidance of legitimate
-- Carl Jung
TTP encourages one to completely experience the feeling / suffering, and
as such moves one away from illness. This certainly fits well with my
experience of it.
Thank you for sharing your insights.
Carl Gustaf Jung (1875-1961)
Swiss Psychologist Carl G. Jung is one of the founders of
modern psychoanalytic theory.
His discoveries include
the collective unconscious, archetypes, psychological types, active
imagination, synchronicity and individuation.
gifts include facile interpretation of religious and parapsychological phenomena,
dreams, myths and symbols.
Mon, 23 Apr
Hi Ed Seykota,
I was struggling with Trading Psychology and came across your site. I am
intrigued. Breathwork and Trading, an interesting dynamic. I did several
‘Holotropic Breathwork’ sessions back in the day, it looks like you are
using a slightly different approach.
Can you clarify the difference
between your approach and the Grof Holotropic approach?
What would be required for me to start a group in the [City]
area? Or, perhaps there are some practitioners here already that you
could put me in contact with?
I conduct occasional Breathwork
Weekends for people who are active in the work. I do not publish
See the Tribe Directory link above
for more information.
Mon, 23 Apr
No Tribe Here
I'm willing to join the Trading Tribe but there’s none local here in
See Tribe Directory above for
information of starting a Tribe in your area.
Sat, 21 Apr
Changes in the Market
Dear Mr. Seykota,
After reading Mr. Schwager's interview with you in Market Wizards, I
have been inspired to build my own computerized trading system. Since
this book was published in 1989, I am interested if any significant
changes in the market have decreased the viability of a trading system,
and if such an endeavor on my part would still be worthwhile.
I have VERY limited experience in computer programming and would like to
know what areas of this field you think would be most pertinent for me
to study or what books I may find most useful.
These days, I notice the markets go
up and down in different ways. I notice the same thing in 1989.
If you wish to trade for a living
you might consider studying yourself.
Self Inspection Device
Another good one
is your Tribe.
Fri, 20 Apr
Tribe Status Update
Thanks largely to the fact that the
Tribe attends the Cambridge Workshop last July, all of us with the
exception of the recent new member feel on par with each other
regards our understanding of TTP. Since each of us experiences TTP and
Seats at the hands of its creator, there is very little of the
loss” that might be a feature of our pre-Cambridge sessions. For that,
our Leader feels grateful to the entire Tribe. (Prior to July 2006, he
the only Workshop graduate in our Tribe.)
During our last Tribe meeting (March 28, 2007), we discuss some of the
issues that our Tribe is experiencing.
(1) We all feel that the Tribe is an excellent support-group. It helps
all in our professional, and in our personal lives. Hot Seat sessions
us to feel our feelings, and experience and understand their positive
(2) However, some of us now feel we are slipping into a “comfort zone”.
has us wondering if we all now have a stake in each others’
(3) Some of us are experiencing a feeling of being “stuck” – that we are
moving forward. This is an issue that some of us express a desire to
the Hot Seat.
Ed – the IV Tribe that you start has been around many years. I am sure
Tribe experiences some of what the [we are] now experiencing,
In the Incline Tribe we use the
Snapshot Process to locate issues standing between us and full
participation in life.
We then develop the associating
forms and take them into the Rocks Process.
If you feel "stuck" you might
consider developing the forms that associate with that feeling.
As Workshop Graduates, you are
welcome to attend Tribe Meetings at Incline Village, NV and/or Austin
Both these Tribes are pretty good at
helping each other to locate issues and to replace medication with
You Can Use TTP to Self-Medicate ...
or to Activate!
Thu, 19 Apr
Wants a Tribe
I am interested in trading but realize I need a mentor or at least have
people to bounce ideas off of in my own search for the "aha".
contacting a tribe in [City]. The
guy, says they no longer meet. Is there any online
place to participate beyond the FAQ, ie: a forum, chat area, etc? If
not, I really believe [City] needs some sort of Tribe set up as I
am sure there are other folks with similar desires to mine. Is there
any other way for someone that is not near a tribe to correspond with Ed
and other tribe leaders on an ongoing basis? I really am looking just
for sign posts to help point me in the right direction ...
See the Tribe Directory link above
for information on starting a Tribe in your area.
Mon, 16 Apr
Buying Panic ?
previous: Copper Top
I've been looking to double up on [stock]; It looks like the market does it
Thank you for reporting your trades
and feelings in real-time.
The Circle Indicates the Double-Up Point
Mon, 16 Apr
Dear Mr. Ed Seykota
Thanks for the Trading Tribe, what a great forum to form a Fellowship.
We sit in ring formation and support one another.
I have found my personal metaphor for trading and my life in general. I
have for many years been overwhelmed by the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
Only recently have I been able to recognize it's meaning to me as a
metaphor representing my life and trading.
Up until my last TT meeting I only considered the Fellowship of the ring
to represent a fellowship of my psychic parts, at times congruent and
aiming for the same goal, but certainly not always. However I now
understand that I can progress far more effectively with the aid of an
external fellowship, my new tribe.
Only at my last TT meeting, my fifth meeting, did I stand out of my own
way and allowed my feelings to communicate directly. I believe my courage
came about from seeing our TT leader at the previous meeting take the
What an experience, as the forms I displayed became apparent to other
tribe members, they encouraged my forms to evolve and take on a life of
their own. With-in a very short space of time I was transported to a
different place and time. A vivid recollection of a very young childhood
experience which on reflection explains my frequent childlike behavior
in the markets (even though I am almost 50).
I now feel that certain
events occur in trading, and probably life in general, which
instantaneously journey me back to a particular childlike state and it
is from there I too frequently operate.
As I found the experience emotionally draining I could not continuously
sustain the hot seat forms for very long. I know I have much more work to
do in this particular direction as new forms were just beginning to
One thing I did note whilst in the hot seat, when I was in a trance like
state most of the words spoken by the other members did not consciously
register. But what did come across very powerfully was their encouraging
and supportive tone.
Thanking you big chief and my TT for giving me an opportunity to finally
begin maturing into an independent adult that does not live and react
from his past.
Thank you for sharing your process
and for illustrating the importance of the Tribe Leader getting on the
In TTP and in Life
The leader sets the pace.
Fri, 13 Apr
Issue : Spin-Off Adjustment
Here is an example of a serious problem with back-testing stock trading
The first chart is a snap-shot from 4/12/2007 at 6:46 p.m.
second chart is a snapshot of the same stock taken after 8pm on the same
The reason for the discrepancy is the data service finally adjusts
the prices for the KFT spin-off. On the new chart my system issues a buy
signal on 3/30/2007. However, the chart that is actually available to me
prior to 4/13/2007 shows a set-up with no trigger.
This problem is not
unique to Fidelity. Worden has exactly the same problem. It shows an
incorrectly adjusted chart until the evening of 4/12/2007. In this case
CSI has it right on the day of the spin-off. This one missed signal
could pay for the CSI subscription. I know of other cases in which CSI
gets it wrong and Worden gets it right.
It seems that if you are serious
about systematic trading you might want to have a couple of data sources
and spend some time to reconcile differences in the stocks in your
Thank you for sharing your insight
and for the stunning graphical presentation.
Before spin-off adjustment.
After spin-off adjustment.
Fri, 13 Apr
Pre-Label Rocks Process,
The feedback you sent us regarding our Rocks-process
was quite negative. You changed our headline from
"Rocks Process" into "Dim Rocks Process" and seemed to
condemn the whole process. We thought it was a very
As I understood it we were meant to squeeze certain
feelings into rocks from different situations in life,
especially those filled with drama or pain. The next
step was to label the rocks and then bring them to the
tribe hot seat. It seems we were not supposed to label
them ourselves. Ok, that seems to be like Dim-behavior
but that was unclear.
One other difference I recognized from other tribes
was that they usually come up with a hole lot of
alternative responses and we only came up with a few
and picked one as the resources rock. Now I understand
the resources rock should include a basket full of
opportunities as responses. First I thought it should
be similar to trading - you choose the best model and
stick to it. Here it seems you want as many
alternatives as possible instead. Do you think the
role playing should include all of them?
We have planned to have a new Rocks-process next week.
We intend to integrate the suggestions you made and hope that you
will approve of our approach this time.
2. Check in
3. Hot seat
4. Rocks Process with role playing
How do you suggest we approach the rocks-process? Is
it in line with your view to bring up a scenario
you're not satisfied with, and then get help with
Thank you for the feedback.
The title now stands as "Pre-Label Rocks Process."
You might consider charging
the Action Rock with forms, rather than with concepts.
You might consider taking your need for approval into the process as an entry point.
People Who Need Approval
sometimes sell out for medication
such as a certifciate
rather than deal with
the underlying issue.
Wed, 11 Apr
The Copper Top
previous: Net Cost
I am long July copper at 348.15 for a few days now. I am bullish for at
least 50 cents now. I find it extremely hard to follow my system and
out of this move. Every cent higher is one cent closer to The top. Now
that I am in, I also find it extremely hard to follow my system and not
a quick profit. I have to fight the urge to sell out and declare
Taking a quick profit is completely contrary to the extremely long term
nature of my entry.
I'm reframing what it means to be right. Regardless of the P&L, I am
if and only if I am long at the high print. In effect, I'm changing my
of getting in at the top to fear of not being in at the top. I don't
if today is the top, I do know that I am long when the top occurs.
My risk is under control and the long term trend is up, so I take a
go work on a quicker entry for my system, and let the market work, come
Bull markets have the top, over and
You might consider investigating and
embracing both fears, rather than deciding to change one into the other.
Therapy for Top and Bottom Pickers.
1. Pick a top from the upper panel.
2. Pick a bottom from the lower panel.
3. Repeat 1 & 2 until boredom sets in.
4. Follow your system.
Wed, 11 Apr
Goal of Meditation
= Better Trading
Dear Mr. Seykota,
I just finished reading Jack Schwager's interview with you as chronicled
in Market Wizards. I was struck by the purity of your outlook as
compared to the other traders so far. I myself am hobbled by chronic
diffidence because, being deeply interested in Zen meditation, I often
second-guess my decisions because I am afraid my ego may be playing
tricks on me, that I am deceiving myself, an instance of mauvais foi or
"self-deception," a principle from Nietzche.
I endeavor to continue my
meditation to root out emotional complexes, so that I can trade with
rationality and with great disciple, what Andrew Beyer likens to the
"professional horseplayer," one who trades dispassionately and
patiently, waiting for prime bets and not throwing money into the
atmosphere in order to get high on gambling. This is self-destructive
behavior, an observation which you make in the interview, about trading
for "excitement." This is not me, at least I do not want it to be.
I am writing because you are an inspiration for someone who concurs with
many of your ideas while still wanting to be a successful trader, in
order to give back to a society that needs healing.
Meditation that has a purpose,
Your syntax variously indicates the
without desire for
gain or profit,
without any goal.
Mon, 9 Apr
The Net Cost of
You might consider taking a look at the relative importance to you of
money and being right. You might consider asking how wrong you are
OK. You are correct in your assessment that being right is very
me. I wonder how I am always able to cut my losses short. When I look at
open positions I notice that all but one are profitable and as a group
an average gain of 17.14% for the year. When I look at my closed
for this year I notice that the vast majority of them are losers. When I
my account balance I notice that it's up significantly more than the S&P
I also notice that shorting index futures at various times reduces the
volatility of the equity curve without much effect on the total profits.
of the evidence suggest to me that at least right now I'm not letting my
be right interfere with making money.
I recall that this is not always the case. I remember many painful
of selling out winners during the first significant retracement and
them go on to new highs without me. I recall one particular stock gains
100% in a
month and I still lose money trading it from the long side by panic
highs, and panic selling the lows all the way up.
I don't like to be
about a stock and not make big money. It's incredibly painful to be
right about a
stock and lose big money.
BTW, My 8 year old son makes 45% on his (small and growing) stock
the past month! Today we take some profits so he can buy a video game
I could learn a lot from him about making money and spending it on
Thank you for sharing your
Panic may be a self-protection response to
elevation of blood CO2
You might consider noticing your
forms during your "panic" buying and selling episodes. You can
take these to your Tribe as entry points.
The Traditional "Remedy"
for a hyperventilation a Panic Attack
is to give the subject
a paper bag and to tell him
to breathe in and out of it.
This remedy may
prolong the attack.
- - - - -
Panic Key on Trader Console
always makes the right move
when you press it.
Clips & Information:
Sun, 8 Apr
This is fascinating, well worth the time to view even if your don't
Pretty interesting ... or scary ... or both!
Sun, 8 Apr
We would like to welcome our daughter as a
new addition to our Family.
After 50+ hours of labor my wife delivered on (Good)
Friday at about 3pm. Our daughter is 7 lbs 11 ounces and in
Congratulations on expanding your
essential Tribe - and for getting your wife to do most of the work.
Sat, 7 Apr
Improvement in Relationships
Greeting! I have my visual C# book in front of me right now. As I
started studying, I lost focus a bit and suddenly I wanted to write you
an email before I study hard right after I finished this letter. Walking
my talk is my focus so I be brief and get back to studying again.
We had a great TTP meeting last week. Big Aha's. Most grateful Aha, for
some reason I was gravitated toward reading, understanding, and
accepting Borderline-Fractal Poem. I thank you for posting wonderful
Tremendous Joy every day for me right now. I am tasting Freedom
first time in decade. Dramatic improvement in relationships at work and
friends. Amazingly, friends, colleagues and I are showing willingness to
change to achieve and experience harmony ever since I got involved in
Thank you for everything. When you get a chance please update the tribe
directory, we lost one member however 3 are going strong and willing.
Take care we love you very much.
Thank you for sharing your process.
you can live in harmony
with seventeen other people
without getting very high.
Wed, 4 Apr
Some time has passed since I first wrote to you. I have become a better
trader and I very much enjoy reading FAQ from time to time. I wish that
my commitment to TTP will grow. Thank you for what I already learned
In the Feb-FAQ I read a comment of a contributor that he is completely
sold on trend following. This evokes a very strong feeling in me:
angry that I am not completely sold on trend following! I am also angry
about going long a trending market, building a pyramid with low risk,
having an idea for the exit and then changing that idea when resistance
appears. I am angry that when the trend continues and breaks the
resistance I don't have the balls to reenter my position.
seem to have lost the will to be in the market and consequently to make
It feels good to report these feelings. I feel the positive intention.
I know it will be hard to change.
You might consider investigating the
premise that your anger relating to trading is functional as medication
for deeper feelings you are unwilling to address.
Tue, 3 Apr
Wants to buy Gold
Want to lend me some money? There is some gold I’d like to buy.
I wonder how much is some,
what rate of interest, what collateral and what percent of the proceeds
over and above interest you offer.
Golden Gate Bridge, San Francisco
Some people view gold
as a bridge
as well as an investment.
Mon, 2 Apr
I notice that the 'Rocks' page of the TT website no longer contains any
links to references, resources and case studies.
Is there a reason for their removal ? (Perhaps the Rocks material
progresses forward to such a degree that it renders the older material
and the older case studies obsolete) . . . . . . . . . or has the Rocks
material simply found for itself a new home somewhere else on your
website (which i am unable to find).
If the latter, could you please advise on the location/link
Wed, 21 Mar