© Ed Seykota, 2003 - 2008 ... Write for permission to reprint.

Ed Seykota's

Frequently Asked Questions

Home  ...  FAQ Index & Ground Rules  ...  Tribe Directory - How to Join

TTP - The Trading Tribe Process  ...  Rocks  ...  Glossary

  TTP Workshop  ...  Resources  ...  Site Search  ...  The Trading Tribe Book

TSP: Trading System Project  ...  Breathwork

Associates Program  ...  Chart Server  ...  Contact Us  ...  The Whipsaw Song


November 1 - 30, 2008


<==  Previous  |  Next  ==>



Note: The intention of inclusion of charts in FAQ is to illustrate trading principles - The appearance of a chart does not imply any kind of indication or recommendation to buy, sell, hold or stay out of any positions.




(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Saturday, November 29, 2008


Goatee Indicator


Dear Ed,

I hope you are well.

I thank you for your feed back on the last FAQ. I thank you for your sharing, generosity and commitment.

During the month of November, I got back in little too early on the long side and my drawdown was little more than usual.


During the drawdown, I notice myself rubbing my chin over and over again. Then I notice that I do that every time I go through drawdowns.


So I am suspecting that I am going through unnecessary drawdowns to catch myself in situations where I am looking at the screen and rubbing my chin. I usually grow a short goatee so I can intensify my rubbing during drawdowns.


When the drawdowns become heavy, my rubbing escalates and when draw down seems to be over my rubbing becomes lighter and finally stops.


I feel I can cut down on unnecessary drawdowns if I can find out the root feeling and change it to proactive.


I know you are very busy, however I ask for your support and ask for for precious feedback. I thank you for your sharing and commitment and hope you are spending wonderful holiday season in the now!

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <rubbing your chin> to Tribe.


You might consider setting up a regular rubbing budget for yourself, say 1/2 hour in the morning and 1/2 hour in the evening in which you can intentionally and purposefully massage your beard.





Women and Men With Clean Chins


who wish to follow along

with the exercise above


can use this handy prosthetic goatee.





Clip: http://www.io.com/~sjohn/goatee.htm



Friday, November 28, 2008


Elliott Wave



Do you have an opinion on R.N. Elliott’s wave-based analysis of the stock market?

The Elliott Wave is a non-definite indicator that is mostly subject to interpretation.


As such, it is the ideal tool to justify any trade as being "scientific" or "mathematical."























The Elliott Wave


Here, Elliott waves good-by to his money


and feels OK about it

since he can justify every trade

as following from


a "scientific" indicator.


Clip: http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm84/


Friday, November 28, 2008


K-not in Stinginess


yesterday, I discovered that I have a big k-not in stinginess.

I was in a fast food in [City]. After ordering my meal, the waitress asked not at all discreetly "what I would want to drink?". Even though I was not at all thirsty, I said hurriedly "one Coca-Cola please". I was not all thirsty, and I would really be satisfied with a plain water. Just a plain water.

I felt embarrassed when he asked "what I would want to drink?". I made my belly contract and my eyes were looking on the right and left side by looking at my neighbors who heard his question.

Then the waitress served the biggest glass of Coca (6€). I hardly drunk the quarter of the glass. I even forgot to take the smallest one.

So, after thinking of this situation where I really feel ludicrous and stupid after reflection, I understand that I have a negative judgment in being stingy or skinflint. I understand better now why my account bank was more often in the red than in the green when I was student.

Actually, I'm persuaded that it's bad to be stingy or skinflint. And not ordering a drink means that I'm stingy and I should be ashamed of it. I remember my friends laughing to me and saying "oh the big stingy man, ahahah the big stingy man" when I did not order a drink in restaurant. When I was child, my parents loved to repeat as well that it's bad to be stingy.

I think that one of the positive intention of stinginess is to protect my money or my asset, isn't it?
From now on I have to embrace more my feeling of stinginess. My conscious mind must never forget stinginess positive intention by simultaneously taking pleasure when I really want to take it...

Mr. Seykota said "people get what they want". By buying this stupid glass of coca-cola I got what I want. What I want is to "prove that I'm not a stingy man" event though I was not at all thirsty.

Yours faithfully and 1000 times thank you for the TTP.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Words like stingy, parsimonious, penurious, miserly and frugal imply a comparison with someone else who is more generous, perhaps even a power-shopper.


You might consider taking your feelings about <attitudes about spending money> to Tribe.




If You Hold On To Your Money

too tightly


you might not be open

to receive more.



Clip: http://bostonist.com/2005/11/21/


November 27, 2008


Wants to Invest



With effort we saved ~$13K. Would you trade it for us?

You might consider investing in your own career.

Wednesday, November 26, 2008

Under- Over- and Critically Damped Oscillations

Hey Ed, I hope all is well. Here is a YouTube video of a physics lecture about under, over and critically damped systems. Ed, your recent posts and this video sparks some interesting ideas in my head regarding new purge methods of my equities trend following systems. Thanks.



I find the differential calculus is rather obscure and tedious - and interferes with developing a gut understanding of the dynamics. 


Professor Lewin admits he has to leave out the v2 term in order to solve the equation. 


I prefer staying in the now, using numerical methods to plot amplitude vs. time.

Wednesday, November 26, 2008


Positive and Negative Emotions



In working toward my intention of "I Develop and Trade Winning Systems", I find that much of the process entails dealing with the "organic part" of the system -- me and my emotions.

I'm discovering numerous resources that are moving me toward clarity. Here's an article about positive and negative emotions that seems in alignment with TTP:


I realize the real work and benefit of TTP is in fully experiencing emotions and not just reading or thinking about it. In addition to practicing TTP in our local tribe, I practice TTP with my wife. I notice the additional benefit of TTP that results: connecting meaningfully with others.

I thank you for all you share. :-)

In TTP we hold that all feelings have  positive intentions and that labeling some of them as negative tends to interfere with the process of experiencing them and extracting their value.


Fractionators who divide feelings into good and bad tend to put fear and anger in the bad category and love and peacefulness in the good category.


Such people may show reticence to experience and / or express fear and anger and tend may have problems managing boundaries and risk.

September 26 2008


re: The Piece of Pie,

Tuesday, November 25, 2008

85 bn in 200 mln people is 425 dollars per person not 425,000 dollars per person, but hey who is counting??

Maybe we should spend the money on math education - oh wait we already have!!

Or maybe the writer was using metric billions which is I think 1 million millions as opposed to 1 thousand millions.

All the best.

When government gets fully into the business of printing money, the difference between 425 and 425,000 can be a few months or even much less.

Tuesday, November 25, 2008


Market Description


Hey Ed,


This describes the market better than any news I could find. This is the link where I found the photo.



Clip: http://www.authorstream.com/Content/



I wonder how long the bull is stable in this configuration.

Monday, November 24, 2008


Stress-Free Thanksgiving Dinner







More evidence we are living in the age of medication.

Monday, November 24, 2008 


Whipsaw Song Video Just ROCKSSS!!!


Hi Ed,


I saw the Whipsaw song Video, its awesome. You look great. I like the video so much, that before starting my Trading Day, I see the video regularly and gives me a great feeling. Following my Trading System rules is no more a forced discipline for me since I am now willing to follow it without any doubt. Thanks for the releasing the video. Keep releasing such videos.



Thank you for your support.

Sunday, November 23, 2008


Attitude Change


Back in 1929 Financial Crash it was said that some Wall Street Stockbrokers and Bankers jumped from their office windows and committed suicide when confronted with the news of their firms and clients financial ruin.


Many people were said to almost feel a little sorry for them. In 2008 the attitude has changed somewhat:


Part of the function of economic downturns is to restore compassion, community and humility - and to support people in migrating to more profitable enterprise.


It looks like we might have a way to go.



Sunday, November 23, 2008


Cover Indicator

I see a lot of suffering on this cover. It makes me have some reserves about opening new short positions.


Maybe you can mention some other magazines whose cover, in your opinion, is worth checking.

I do not see much evidence of terror or despair.  I see a man heading toward money and toward the light.

Sunday, November 23, 2008


Wants to Join The Trading Tribe

Hi Ed,

I am very eager to join the Trading Tribe community.

I had sent the mail below to the tribe leader who resides in [City] (since this region is in my vicinity), but I did not get any response.

Could you please help me out in the joining process, as I am desperate in being a Trading Tribe Member.

Thanks in anticipation.

See the Tribe Directory Link for instructions.

Saturday, November 22, 2008


In The Pool Business


Thank You


Dear Mr. Seykota,

I just received your 'Trading Essentials' card and a $2-bill in the mail today. I want to thank you for your kindness - both will hopefully prove to be good luck charms as I continue my trading!

After interning on Wall Street last summer (and hating it), I started a trend-following commodity pool 4 months ago upon graduating from [Name] College. Yes it's small and the participants in the pool are mostly buddies from college, but I am having the time of my life and couldn't be happier. Thank you for helping me find what I love. As you say, 'Everyone gets what they want from markets.'


Thank you for sharing your process.

Friday, November 21, 2008


Parable of the Cracked Pot - Video




Friday, November 21, 2008

Magazine Cover


I'm a member of the [City] trading tribe and have attended 3 meetings so far. I think TTP is fascinating, I can feel changes going on inside of me. I can't judge yet if these changes are good or bad, because since the most recent tribe meeting it feels like small turbulences are going on inside of me. it almost feels like losing my composure very slowly. I'm curious where this is going.

I included a cover for you because my chief told me about this indicator based on magazine covers. it's from a magazine for university students here in [Country]. the translation of the title is: "get OUT of the crisis. this is how you get started in spite of turbulences." it seems like crisis isn't over yet.




I see a man with a smile.

Thursday, November 20, 2008


Wants to Find a Woman

Hi Ed,

Thanks for calling. I appreciate your advice, and I wrote a profile. I had a very hard time initially to describe myself, and to be specific about what kind of woman I would like to meet. Thank you for offering to take a look at it.

Please let me know what you think.

I wish I had been able to tell you more about me, and why I want to join the tribe. I was caught off guard, surprised by the call, and I could not collect my thoughts then.


From what I have read about you I am very impressed, and I respect you a lot so maybe I was intimidated at the moment.

I am not a 100% sure what you implied when you asked me about various skills if I have and if I am unhappy because not having them.


If you suggested I should have given up trading: that will not happen.

I am very enthusiastic about it, and I have never found anything that would interest me so intensely, and that persistently. I am just fascinated by it more and more. I would love to find a mentor, someone who is truly successful in it (not the crazy way like Jessie Livermore who made fortunes but went bust more then once, and then killed himself, but someone who has the risk controlled as well, and have a healthy full life)

I will not give up the plan to join your tribe; I will wait for the workshop if that is the way for me to get in.

You might consider taking your feelings about <wanting a woman> to Tribe.


You might also consider editing your personal ad to emphasize the parts of it that talk about ways you like to connect emotionally with your woman and about how you dedicate your skills to serving others.

Thursday, November 20, 2008


Wants Help


Mr. Seykota Sir,


Its a great privilege for me to write you. I have a question about reward/risk ratio, I asked a few traders but am not sure I have the correct answer. I'd be eternally indebted to you if you could give me your opinion on this as I do realize you are a very busy man. My question is: "The trading strategy which I'm very comfortable with has a very high percentage of wins, easily above 85% of the trades are wins. I do have losses but they are few and far in between.

The thing that troubles me is the reward to risk ratio is less than one its about 0.65 well the expectancy still works out positive but the risk/reward thing troubles me a bit as everywhere else I see most people's trade systems were losses are small and the reward to risk ratio is well above 1 most times its like 3.

When I try to increase my ratio to 1 which I can, I get stopped out more often and the win to loss ratio drops. The trouble is I'm not psychologically comfy with a lower hit rate even if the reward to risk is well above 2 or 3. I prefer wider stops. Having a higher win rate sorta gives me a kind of mental satisfaction that I'm "right" in the market, so to speak.


I know being right is not important and there is Soros's very old adage which says its not important how often you're right or wrong but what is important is how much you make when you're right and how little you loose when you're wrong - but it is to me.

My question is will this style be viable in the long run as its against conventional wisdom and even goes against old maxims like let your winners run and cut your losses short.

Thank you very much.

You can answer your own questions about systems by conducting back-tests.


If you are not exactly following a system, you are likely including additional elements to medicate your feelings about Trend Trading.


You might consider taking your feelings about <Trend Trading> to Tribe.

November 20, 2008

200 Year-Old Prediction About Banking




Thomas Jefferson


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.


If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

- Thomas Jefferson 1802

History is likely to prove Jefferson correct. 


Some of Jefferson's followers are starting to notice the hard part in his system lies in riding it out for the first 200 years.

Thursday, November 20, 2008


Geneva Tribe




Here is our TTID for Geneva.







Switzerland !

November 19, 2008


Hitler in Debt - Video


An interesting presentation of a serious current problem



Tuesday, November 18, 2008


Moving On to Silicon


Hi Ed !

as you know from our recent phone conversations, I now live in the valley of the silly cons. therefore please delete my former Tribe reference from the directory.

I can join a tribe here, or create a new one.

An options trader wrote to me recently and told me how much you helped him trading.

You are the most amazing person.

Hope all is well in your world.

Thank you for the encouragement.


Congratulations on your move.

Monday, November 17, 2008

Understanding the Wife



I understand. She can never give me what I need. We have to go separated ways. I feel sadness, nausea, and tiredness. I develop a feeling of compassion for guys in the same situation, which I used to consider failures, and maybe are more fulfilled than I am. I feel immense love for my wonderful, beautiful children and want to support them, because it can be hard for all of us.

It is not nice, and it is the right thing to do.

Curiously, I don't want my friends to comfort me, but I expect my Tribe to help me learn from these feelings.

And I have been doing TTP for less than 3 months.

I need a lot of courage for this trip.


You might consider taking your feelings about <she can never give me what I need> to Tribe.


When you experience the positive intention of that feeling, your relationship with your wife may become much more intimate.




Getting an Understanding




Balancing Intimacy

and safety and security


with a sense of unpredictability.









Sunday, November 16, 2008

Thank You


Thank you, thank you, thank you, for teaching me trend following.

I'm meeting last week with elderly couple, their account with me up +6% for the year. Their other accounts down -40.


Sunday, November 16, 2008

Question on Support and Resistance System



I am working on your Support and Resistance system and cannot understand the first your trade. I have read readers feedback and still cannot understand.

By looking at your Metrics I can see that first day when the 20-day support (739.10) was broken was 75-02-11, which was Tuesday, with value of 738.20. You order price is (738.2+739.1)=738.65. But on 75-02-13, Thursday, it never would be hit. How this trade can be possible? And Wednesday data is also missing.

One of your answer to somebody on FAQ was that you decided on 75-02-10 go short on 75-02-11 with a sell stop at 739.1, but there was not any signal on that day to go short for a next day, or I am missing something?

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

You might consider taking your feelings about <math> to Tribe.



Sunday, November 16, 2008


Wants to Join a Tribe

Hello Ed:

I am a new trader. I'll be a year old in trading on November 19th. I read about you in Market Wizards and recently watched your whipsaw song, when caused me to seek out your website. What a resource. I have been on a path to living fully by living consciously and I am very interested in joining the Tribe.

I live in the [City, State] area. Is there a community in this area I could join? What do I need to do to connect with a Tribe.

I hope you are having a great weekend. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

See the Directory link, above for instructions.

Sunday, November 16, 2008


Celebration of Autumn - Video




Very nice.


The official government response to Autumn is to declare it a crisis and then to authorize billions to form an agency to try to stick the leaves back up on the trees.




This Enthusiastic Member


of the President's Commission

on Restoring Our Trees to Springtime (ROTS)


practices hoisting a leaf from the ground

in preparation to re-attach it

to an appropriate branch.



Clip: http://www.dec.ny.gov/pubs/24053.html

Sunday, November 16, 2008


Forrest Gump on Mortgage Backed Securities



Here's the skivvy according to Gump.


Mortgage Backed Securities are like boxes of chocolates.

Criminals on Wall Street stole a few chocolates from the boxes and replaced them with turds.

Their criminal buddies at Standard & Poor rated these boxes AAA Investment Grade chocolates.

These boxes were then sold all over the world to investors.

Eventually somebody bites into a turd and discovers the crime.

Suddenly nobody trusts American chocolates anymore worldwide.

Hank Paulson now wants the American taxpayers to buy up and hold all these boxes of turd-infested chocolates for $700 billion dollars until the market for turds returns to normal.

Meanwhile, Hank's buddies, the Wall Street criminals who stole all the good chocolates, are not being investigated, arrested, or indicted.

Mama always said: "Sniff the chocolates first, Forrest".

Sometimes your nose knows.

Saturday, November 15, 2008


Unwillingness to Experience Sadness

can be Expensive



I wish to report a Hotseat with several ed-ucative issues.

Somebody steals my bike. I look three days for the positive intention of losing a bike, and cannot find any. As I tell my wife that I am really angry about spending 200 EUR for a new bike, I stomp heavily with my right leg. WAIT! This is a form! I also remember stomping heavily with the same leg in February, as I loss money in the market. And for some weeks I have an dull ache in my right knee. I see that I use losing money to medicate something.

But what?

The Hotseat: A week later, two members of my Tribe help me. (A) has an issue with "I am worthless and cannot do it" and is an excellent receiver. (B) is inexperienced and still did not manage a process.


I show a very intense form, stomping with the leg, moving the arms, and making a loud "grrrrr" sound. I try several times to reach the feeling behind the form, but it does not work. I see myself as a child, stealing some money from my grandmother, and my father judging me severely.


I understand the situation, but have no aha. I still feel that there is more hiding, but I do not find the right access to the feeling. Then, we work on the form "I do not find the right access to the feeling" (lying on the coach and rubbing my ear) until I enjoy it.


Then, I see that I can access the other feeling. I try again, with enormous physical effort, but it still does not work. Somehow, I feel irritated by (B). Then, I suggest (A) to manage the process. I tell her "I do not plan to support your $&%$(/& drama of being worthless and not being able to do things".


To be consistent in my support, I am obliged to reach the feeling and hence enable her to finish the process successfully. She agrees to be the manager and we start again. I still find it difficult to reach the feeling and ask (A) if she is really committed to support me. She says yes, but I feel some uncertainty in her and repeat the question. This time, I feel her certainty and know that she definitely supports me in my effort.


This time, I reach the feeling and experience a real explosion of anger. I lie on the floor, going into wild contortions and yelling bloody hell. I remember my father working until very late, earning a lot of money and not being at home with me as I am 3 or 4 years old. I am exhausted, but still do not understand the positive intention of losing money. No aha.

During the checkout, (A) reports thinking "I don't know if it is going to work" during the process, and being speechless as I say, spontaneously "I do not plan to support your $&%$(/& drama of being worthless and not being able to do things". (B) reports being distracted and not concentrated on supporting me. He is also surprised as I say him that I do not feel well supported and I prefer (A) to manage the process.


This reproduces his feelings. During the checkout, I feel confused and still do not understand the experience. I felt the gigantic release of tension and anger. I see that it makes no sense to lose a bike. Furthermore, I do not have to lose in the market. I just loss money if I abandon my system; it is robust and, if I follow it, I know what drawdown to expect, and that this is just part of the game. I also experience a majestic catharsis during the Hotseat. But I remember you mentioning that "in TTP, catharsis is optional". Hmmm...

The next morning, as I wake up, I feel very sad and wounded. I could cry. I tell my wife that I need her love and support. My wife is annoyed. She says "I do not understand what is happening with you, you act strange."


I feel more sadness, but she is not willing to help me. She leaves the room. She does not understand my emotional needs. And then - AHA! By losing money and feeling really angry, I cover the sadness which I experience if people do not understand me and do not respect my emotional needs. I can waste money like a drunken sailor, but people still do not understand my emotional needs. It is not an effective response, and it is expensive.

I am confused. Sometimes, my wife does not understand my emotional needs. But what should I do? The problem with TTP is that it works, and hence you have to make decisions about your life. I search for the solution for some minutes. I love my wife.


Maybe her reaction is absolutely normal and nobody can always fulfill all my emotional needs. Do I have unrealistic expectations? Should I discuss the problem with her? Should I accept that she cannot understand some of my emotional needs? Should I look for another woman? I search, and search, and finally find it: If my wife cannot, in my Tribe there are 8 people who commit to accept my feelings and my emotions.


I feel completely released from sadness. I feel good. Sadness is a wonderful feeling which shows me that people do not understand my emotional needs. When I realize it, I can look for a proactive solution for the problem, instead of medicating it with anger.

I thank my wife for not understanding my needs in the morning: this leads to a gigantic insight.

Thank you for sharing TTP with us.


Thank you for sharing your process.  You raise some interesting issues.


In TTP we focus less on the positive intentions of losing the bike than on on the positive intentions of the feelings of losing the bike.


If you start to address your own issues about <nobody loves me> you are likely to entrain some transient supporting drama with your wife.


In TTP we try to notice this and avoid engaging the wife in a drama in which she must learn how to medicate your feeling. 


Your approach, thanking your wife for exciting your form, and then taking the work to Tribe seems most effective.


A husband-wife relationship generally meets very specific needs for both people. 


If you try to impose an additional on-going requirement for your partner to shift into process manager mode on a moment's notice you are likely to destabilize the relationship.


TTP Tribes meet with the express purpose of conducting the process. 


Personal relationships between Tribe members outside the Tribe meeting may conflict with executing the TTP processes.


People who practice TTP for a while tend to integrate their learnings into their personalities and develop automatically effective ways of relating to others that do not invoke formal TTP process.




In Relationships


TTP manifests in the smile.



Clip: http://newark1.com/2008/04/


Saturday, November 15, 2008


Dealing With Extremes


Hi Ed,

I have just got back from a trip. It was amazing.

I have a question about the TTP: Sometimes when we go into the forms they become so extreme that it seems unhealthy. For example in one of the members forms he exhaled deeply and kept pushing the air out of his lungs, being at the same time with his head as a lowest point of his body and exhaling, exhaling. I encourage him to go for it and do more. He continues to the point of having enough and then takes a deep breath. Afterward, I realized that if he had any kind of blood vessel problem, this might have resulted in a hemorrhage, maybe a stroke. In this position the blood pressure in the skull is way greater than average.

What would you do in a situation like this? Encourage him to do more or stop him? I am talking about situations when a process manager is concerned with the health of the hot seat participant. Do you believe the body will stop when it senses danger or will continue and destroy itself? Some changes maybe irreversible and counting on negative feedback in the body may not work.

The extreme situation may be one when the hot seat says: " I want to commit a suicide" . Encouragement, in this case, may prove to be an unlucky response.

I think your response may be to take this hesitation to the process myself. So far it seems obvious that I would stop somebody if I am sure they may damage themselves irreversibly, but I am not sure where to draw the line and no amount of back testing can tell me when the given person is going to injure themselves.

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Thank you

In TTP we encourage the Sender to go as far as he pleases.  We do this by noticing where he is going and acknowledging him.  We do not push him where we think he "should" go.


You might consider taking your feelings about <hurting others> to the Hotseat.



A Critical Difference

Between Assisting and Torturing


is frequent testing for

and respect for




Clip: http://static.flickr.com/92/


November 12, 2008


Hot Seat Experience - Doing It Right


Hello Ed,

At our last tribe meeting, I take my feelings of "wanting to manage correctly" to the hot seat. The receivers apply the Field of Acknowledgment and I work through talking about the situation. As I begin to get into it, I recall being scolded as a child by parents and teachers about doing things wrong, I hear in my head, "do it right", "don't be an idiot", "do the right thing", "that's not right, no, how can you be so stupid!"


I feel wrong and rejected. I locate the feeling in my chest and get into a form in my chair hunched over, tightened up, eyes closed, face cringing, gritting my teeth and tears come. My hands are across my chest, squeezing tight. I begin to feel the feeling deep in my chest, intensely. At first, I don't like it, I say through gritted teeth, "I don't like this, I f--king hate this feeling." I scream and swear and cry. I kneel on the floor in a ball, head down, hands in my face. I really get into the feeling as I hear the receivers encouragement. My eyes are closed, squeezed tight and I just hear them around me.

I want to fully experience it, so I keep going with it. It feels tight deep in my chest and I keep my hands on my chest digging my fingers tips into my sternum and squeezing my chest. The feeling seems to be right under my sternum and extends up to both collar bones and shoulders.


I crank it up and let it intensify. The encouragement from the receivers persists and I keep at it. I start to get in tune with the feeling, notice it, experience it, it seems new, as if I've never truly felt it or really noticed it before.


I let it connect to my CM. I begin to accept it, and my CM begins to acknowledge it. I stay into it and focus totally on this feeling, CM is getting a handle on it all. I breathe deeply and fully, I accept it, I accept it. I sit back in my chair, with eyes closed and hands still on my chest. I say "I feel it right in here, Ok, yes, um-hmm." I feel it intensely. I start to feel comfortable with it, that it's OK, that it really seems to be friendly, and not so terrible.


It seems as though it's the first time I truly connect with it consciously. When I realize this, I get a big smile and feel a release of tension. I continue to feel it and think to myself "aha, I get, um-hmm, OK", I shake my head slowly "yes, yes" and rock slightly in my chair. I breathe deeply and take it all in. The receivers encourage me to keep rocking. After a while of this, I get relaxed and open my eyes. I feel deep peace inside and serenity. My eyes are still wet, yet I have a big smile and look around. Someone asks "what is your view now about the situation?", I say "I'm OK with it. I see that not everyone will like what I do or say in every situation, and it's OK to make mistakes and not always 'do it just right' - I'm only human and they're only human - it's part of life." I get a big smile.

It's been several weeks since the hot seat and I notice the feeling of rejection and imperfection occasionally. When I feel it now, I simply accept it, experience it, and it tends to just pass. It helps me to go ahead and do my best at whatever I'm doing and then just accept it.

Thank you for sharing your process and for your example of effective Tribe work.

Tuesday, November 11, 2008


The Testing Work


Ed and Friends,


All your valuable help has finally paid off - big time... as I have now "finally" discovered how to make the right adjustments in my commodities system, so that it will also properly trade (long only) stock index futures.


After over 20 years of working on a stock system I can't thank you enough for your many subtle but important insights, that helped cause the light to go on recently for me etc.


Thanks again. Attached, find a 26 year back-test result. Next is real-time testing, trading the S&Ps (if we can ever get an uptrend...)


Tuesday, November 11, 2008


Dealing with Grief


Hi Ed,

I read your book The Trading Tribe a few months ago and found the book to be very insightful and useful in the moment of now as my life was recently thrust into turmoil by circumstances beyond my doings and thus I had little choice but to accept and deal with all the feeling and emotions as they arose and your book was helpful in guiding me to accept the feelings rather than block them or deny them as is the natural tendency (for men anyway).


Due to the extreme violence of the crime that was committed I had a wide range of emotions over time. I seemed to be in disbelief for the first week and then I went into a deep sadness for a month and now it’s a combination of sadness and acceptance and I’m now left wondering if I will ever feel anger towards the perpetrator as I have not experienced any feelings of anger as yet.


I have read all the Beck and Ellis stuff about thought and feelings but it was your book that proved to be the most useful once thrown into the affray. I accepted all of the feelings as they arose (without judgment) and tried to look for the positive intentions of those feelings. The positive intention for grief and loss when a loved one if taken is the wonderful love and connectedness you once shared with them.

Thanks Ed

Thank you for sharing your process.

Tuesday, November 11, 2008

Working on Trading



I've received the 3 "The Essential Cards" and place them where I can read them every day. You surprise me those 2 dollar bills! I will keep them as something special. Thank you so much!

I read your book -- what a AHA! Listen to your song. This could be the greatest personal growth step ahead by following your teaching. I am reading your TT site as the next step.

It appears to me that what [Therapist] describes as personal issues are what you call k-nots. He runs a business of helping people identify and overcome the personal issues. You guide people to identify and untie k-nots through Trading Tribes.

May I introduce myself? I have an post-graduate engineering background. I love trading and I am working on my trading. I am proficient in  programming. I am looking around to see which trader that I may be able to model. You are one of exceptional few who share the insight and are willing to teach. That is how to find your TT site.

I am almost there in my trading. I just need to untie some k-nots that stand between me and continuing to work on trading. Hope to meet you one day!

Thank you, Ed!

I wonder what you feel is the difference between working on trading - and trading.

Sunday, November 9, 2008


The Daffodil Principle - Video




I like this video about making a difference, one bulb at a time.



Nice story.

Sunday, November 9, 2008


Programmer Goes Ballistic




Once upon a time you inspired me to learn some programming.


I'm now totally out of control. I'm now on the speaker's list at a computer conference.

Good job !

Saturday, November 8, 2008


Our Tribe Rocks



Yesterday, during a tremendous Hotseat lasting for almost 4 hours, we apply an improvised, degenerated, bad and I hope effective version of the Rocks process. Maybe you want to remember that I have never seen it in action and I am using the information from the FAQ. I appreciate comments, corrections and suggestions about this, our version of the a Rock process.

Hotseat comes from a dysfunctional family, she remembers having a dominant, violent father and a passive, submissive mother. Both tell her that did not want her and wanted to abort her. She has been in psychotherapy for some 2 years without success. She has been several times on the hot seat and reports substantial advances in several areas.


This time her issue is "I do not get the job that I want". While exploring her feelings she develops several forms related to "I have to decide alone" (heat in her stomach), "people leave me" (ducking position, rubbing hands), "money and career are bad" (head and back pain, pressure on stomach), "I decide to do it the hard way" (a black, sad, hard, heavy ball in her abdomen), "people handle me like a marionette" (head pain).


We work on each form and complete it, but each time a new issue appears. She reports intense head and neck pain.

When a member reports experiencing pain, I prefer not to make it more intense. I do not want to torture people. Instead, I provide a suggestion ("make the pain clearer").


If the pain has some attribute (hard, cold, shape), I suggest hotseat to make it colder or harder. I observe that it works. In this case, I suggest her to feel a growing pressure on her head, neck and back, and to tense the muscles to resist the pressure. This reproduces the pain sensation.


Then, I do not suggest her to increase the pain, but I say that I increase the pressure, to break her resistance. She contracts the muscles some more and experiences more discomfort. She realizes that a new job, with more chances and responsibility, provides her more chances to be used by people. The pain resolves almost completely. We then suggest her to think about making a carrier and earning loads of money, and the pain reappears, with additional stomach pain.

We work on each pain again. Her father considers her a failure. I ask her to search for the feeling and irritate her by repeating "your father thinks that you are a failure; your father sustains that you do not deserve success; I am your father and I decide that you won't have success" and so on. I am careful not to suggest her what she is, but to make clear that it is her father's opinion. She completes the form and understands the issue, but does not want to tell us about it. Pain resolves again.

But each time, when we suggest her to consider career and money, the pain reappears. I decide to suggest her to experience all pains together, and feel really bad. As she confirm feeling really bad, I ask her to search a situation when she feels so bad. She remembers an episode in her childhood.


Her father is there and she feels insecure. I ask her if somebody in her family shows insecurity related to her father. Yes, her mother does. We do not have rocks or time to squeeze her feelings in it. Hence, I ask her to look for an object who relates to her feeling of uncertainty. She imagines an old blanket, wet, musty and smelly.


I tell her that this is a gift from somebody, and that her mother just passes it to her. She decides to give the gift (the rock) back to her mother, she can do with it whatever she wants. As I say that, I feel myself a pour of emotion and start crying.


She reports that she needs us to do it, she cannot do it alone. Well, we are there. She returns the four-letter-blanket and feels released from tension. I ask her to imagine a new gift for Little Hotseat.


She imagines a flower basket. I ask her to include resources in it, and to decide carefully, because these resources will accompany Little Hotseat her whole life. I also ask Tribe members for suggestions. Hotseat decides to give Little Hotseat valor, certainty, and the ability to evaluate her possibilities realistically and to act accordingly.

(Later, a member observes that we are not providing her with resources, but with labeled feelings. I accept it and see the problem).

I then ask Hotseat to return to the situation with her new resources and to tell me if it works. It does, she realizes that her father is wrong. I ask her to return to similar situations in her past and to see how the resources work (I do not ask her "if", since they will work somehow). We find three situations, in each Young Hotseat observes that it works and that the other people are just wrong. We check out.

Since I have no experience with hypnosis, NLP or transactional analysis, I do not use role playing or some elements of the Rock Process. I hope that it works.

Ed, people are literally stopping me on the hospital floor and spontaneously telling me about their emotional problems related to work or disease. I mention Tribe, and they want to read your book.  Maybe I have a neon light on my forehead, reading TTP?

Last point: Maybe you remember our phone conversation, as I asked you if you accept new clients. I also sent you two emails and a letter. Maybe you can tell me if you can consider me and my wife as clients, of if you don't, or if you need more information. I accept any answer and also accept you not answering, but I as long as I don't know, I face the practical problem of investing the money elsewhere or not.

Thank you for sharing TTP!


Thank you for sharing your process.


Holding your intention for the process to work is likely more important than mastering  the "right way" to do it.


I, too, use the technique of objectifying the "pain" into its constituent sensual properties as a way to assist Hotseat to experience it.


I also encourage Hotseat to "try it again - this this time with the notion that you enjoy it."


I know many ways to implement resources.  I like the ones that include practicing the resource through role playing - especially during a a re-play of some critical drama that invigorates the associating form.


The ritual of giving the rock back to the donor is important in registering boundaries as automatic muscle memories.





the Act of Berating Children


is typically hereditary



Clip: http://images.webster-dictionary.org/


Wednesday, November 5, 2008


Sucking In


Dear Ed:


Thank you for your continuous support. Since the workshop I am making significant improvement. I doubled my asset base despite weak economic conditions.


I have completed one conservative winning system. Recently I have completed winning system based on trading equity. It was working great for few weeks however since last Friday some drama happened and I got sucked in and just couldn't follow the system.


I could not believe it but I did not follow the system. I had pay a huge penalty for not following the system today. This may be because we are conducting tribe meeting this weekend and Fred is creating drama to let me know what I need to work on.


My mother all the sudden called me this morning and left me a message. When I heard the message I knew something bad was going to happen. I made a decision not to answer the phone if she called again, yet miraculously she called multiple times. Finally I answer the call and I manage to avoid drama. Then she called again and I had to blow up on her.


She is sucking me in to situation where I am forced to somehow get in touch with my older brother and start talking again. What even makes me more mad is that she is involving money in to this mess. I made clear to her that I did not want nothing to do with my brother's life anymore and I did not appreciate she trying to manipulate her way in to this.


My brother and I are not communicating for couple of years. My brother got married and got almost divorced and now he is back with his wife with adopted son because they can't have children biologically.


When they adopted their son, I was never told of their home number and my brother instructed me to only call his cell phone. He never sent me his adopted son's picture or not even let me hear his voice. After freaking out to my Mom this morning. I was extremely exhausted. I just did not have anything in me. I realized I have tremendous Anger toward my brother.


Obviously going back I recall two incidents during childhood. My relationship with my parents are fine. I am going back to see my parents first time in years this winter. I notice that my anger toward my brother is something I have never imagined. I don't know what else to do but to do the rock process on two early child hood incident involving my brother.


I do not wish to meet with my brother again or interested in engaging in relationship. In the end, he is always afraid of me and cannot stand me so he does beyond imaginative thing to let me know his evilness. I feel sad. Tears are coming out of me as I write this. We were good friend one time for very short period of time. I think I freaked out on my mom because somehow I feel that my Mom had lot to do with my Brother's behavior towards me.


She expected so much for my older brother and he build up so much fear so only way to conquer his fear was to do nasty thing to me so I will go away. She would constantly create situation so that me and my brother would compete for her recognition. Her controlling and dominate nature is evident.


Thank you for reading my email. I hope your legs are better now. I want to input a proactive rock to follow the system. Do you have any insight. I appreciate your feed back. I miss Incline Village too. If OK I like to attend upcoming tribe meeting. Please let me know of the schedule.



Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <breasts> to Tribe.




To a Child


sucking is equivalent


to staying alive.



Clip: http://www.mydochub.com/images/


Wednesday, November 5, 2008


Wants More Information on Rocks



As I enter "signature rocks" in the site search function, I find the document


which clarifies the method and goals of the Rock process. However, I cannot access this document from other links, and the “Rocks” link does not lead to further documents.

Since it is a very illustrative text, I suggest you to make it more findable (if this word exists), and to present similar documents for our Ed-ucation.


I find the rocks process passes best by observing actual Rocks Process sessions.

Wednesday, November 5, 2008


Wants a Workshop



Hope all is well with you

I would be very interested in attending your next TTP workshop Could you please provide the date of the next one


OK.  I post the Workshop schedule on this site.

Tuesday, November 4, 2008


Lack of Commitment is a Periphrasis for Fear.

Two members of my Tribe stop attending regularly.


One of them has excuses (invitations, holidays), the other reports feeling worse and not seeing progress. I discuss the issue with each of them and inform them that I accept any behavior without limitation, but that as long as they do not clearly state that they leave the Tribe, I assume that they just using excuses to avoid facing their feelings.


I support one member who is uncertain about further attendance by prohibiting her to attend meetings as long as she does not want to attend a meeting, and prohibiting her to take the hot seat as long as she is not willing to take it. This calms and helps her.

I also inform them that invitations, asking them for help to organize a wedding party and so on, are just help via the Under-Fred Network to avoid facing their hidden feelings.


One of the members is very surprised by this insight, and realizes that it is true. The member who "feels worse" in fact reports observing a complete resolution of the issue who brought her to my Tribe (I hope I could "feel worse" too).


She also reports other people who play a substantial role in her drama changing their behavior and supporting her in new constructive ways. After our talk, both members commit to attend meetings regularly.

Members of my Tribe change, mature fast, start managing processes brilliantly - and we have been meeting for less than 3 months. I still do not know what I am doing, but it seems that I am doing it right.

My Tribe now includes a physician, a NLP graduate, and a psychologist. I imagine co-operating with the IV tribe to develop the science of TTP. For example, we could test hypotheses or new ideas from you.

I feel deeply moved, fascinated, challenged, sometimes frightened. I imagine helping patients using TTP, but I cannot imagine doing TTP for money (it would be like asking for money to share love).

But these are FAQ. I should ask something. Hmmm... Well, let's see: Ed, how is the autumn in Incline Village?

Thank you for sharing your process and your insights.


You might consider taking your feelings about <wanting to calm her down> to the hot seat.


Autumn / Winter in Incline is a good time for a visit.  The other good times are Summer and Spring.




A preference for Calm Women ...




... over Fully Expressive Ones


may indicate less about the women


than about your own fears

and preferences.









Monday, November 3, 2008


Magazine Cover




This, from October 20 New Yorker.



Yes.  I see some subtle signs of despair.