The Trading Tribe
(c) Ed Seykota 2003-2010 - Write for permission to reprint.
Ed Seykota's FAQ

Reader Says

Ed Says

Saturday, November 20, 2010

Happy Wishes

Hi Ed.

I am thinking of you and I wonder how you are. I wish you a happy Thanksgiving and happy holidays.

I am eagerly waiting for your book to be available for me to buy. Hope everything is well with you and you are happy.
Thank you for the happy wishes and motivation to get my book in print.
Saturday, November 20, 2010

Brother Stuff

Hi Ed,

Hope you are well. Congratulation on your move to Austin ... I wanted to write to you to ask to see if I could get your support.

I thought I was complete with my work with TTP however through some timely drama I just had few hours ago, I identified another layer or rocks surrounding my brother. My hatred toward my brother is far deeper than I thought. I thought I forgive him but evidently that is not the case and I have huge wall and judgments to communicate about this issue with him and it is not possible to do so.

I realized it is limiting me. I would like to get your support and your tribe to resolve this issue through rock process as visitor. I don't know if you have a tribe session running right now, or you are scheduling in the future , I would like to know the availability. I thank you for your attention and I wait for your reply….

P.S. Coincidently my brother lives in Austin with his wife who never talks to me and his adapted son who I never met and was never told about him from my brother.
Thank you for sharing your process.

In the Rocks Process, the person with whom you have a current might not be the one to "forgive."

In TTP, we forgive the Rock (behavior pattern) back to the rock donor, the person upon whom you are modeling your part in the interaction with your brother.


Brothers Get Along

about as well

as the people who raise them.

Saturday, November 20, 2010

Tune to This Station


You really just have to watch this great video! / it's fantastic ... surprise dancing and singing in a station.
Thank you for the link.
Wednesday, November 17, 2010

Book In Process

Hey Ed,

the book progressed...

at one point it was number 16 of all books in the US
so the publisher asked me to slow down the PR

they did move up the pub date../january

they asked me for names of ppl
I respect

and I gave them you

I hope you find some value in the print
a kind word
would be well appreciated

your friend,
Congratulations on getting your book to the publisher, for getting advance orders and for inspiring me to follow in your footsteps.

I am currently composing some "kind words" for your back cover and promotional materials.
Friday, November 19, 2010

Wants to Join a Tribe

Dear Ed

My friend [Name]and I are interested in joining the Trading tribe in [place].

We took the contact available on your website of a tribe leader .. we mailed ... not able to get any reply.

Please let us know how can we go about joining one.

Both of us are working in a broking firm and are trying to build a discretionary trading model based on trend trading.

Tribes, like many associations, come and go.

You might consider starting your own.
Wednesday, November 17, 2010

Wants to Find Out More

Greetings Chief Seykota,

I was attracted to your site and to the work that you do, thus felt the urge to reach out!

Currently unemployed here in [place], I am an electrical engineer from [Name] University who used his graduate school stipend money to trade equity options on technology sector stocks back in the mid to late 90's. I did have some success, but ended up loosing it all due to not changing my habits / mentality about wealth. I also gave a lot of it away in an effort to help others. Nearly a decade later, I see the world through new eyes and I'm ready to give the art of trading another go.

I've studied astrology for over 15 years and currently run, practice yoga, and play capoeira off and on.

I would love to find out more details about The Trading Tribe and how I might be able to contribute.

Thank you & Many Blessings.
Thank you for sharing your process.

TTP is fairly simple.  The study of TTP leads to some knowledge of the techniques and lots of knowledge about yourself.

If you are already to the point of seeing life as an opportunity to contribute, you are well along the path.

You might continue by reviewing the materials on this site and by joining (or starting) a Tribe in your area.
Wednesday, November 17, 2010

Giving Back Profit

Hello Ed,

I’ve been trading a LTTF system for 5 years now. It’s a very robust system [bases on Donchian] meaning that I will never miss a big trade in the direction of the trend and also I experience a lot of whipsaws and false breakouts.

Nonetheless the system works very well and it suites my personality. One frustrating characteristic of the system is that the exists, (for a profit), typically happen well after the peak/bottom in price has been made which means I’ve given back a good portion of the open profit.

Testing shows that optimizing the exit only gets me out of the really big trades too early. Is this just something we need to live with to ‘ride the trend to the end?’

Can you offer any suggestions as to how to lock in more of the profits without exiting the position too early? I’m guessing this is just a fact of trading and is overcome by having more trades in the future but wanted to pose the question to see if you could possibly add some of your insights to this dilemma. Thanks much Ed!
Thank you for sharing your concern.

Your actual system includes (1) your signals and (2) your ability to follow your signals.

You can work on the former with your software; you can address the later in Tribe.

You might consider taking your feelings about <wanting to be perfect> to Tribe.


Market Tops Are Like Orgasms

You have a sense its coming.
Pulling out is the last thing on your mind.
And then you go unconscious.

Also: mechanical systems, at best,
give you an approximate solution.
Wednesday, November 17, 2010

The Road to Serfdom

Dear Ed,

I woke up crying this morning, wondering, "how far is the United States down "The Road to Serfdom?"

I find the images in this condensed version particularly disturbing: .
Thank you for sharing your process.

In a free culture, people freely share their feelings; sharing feelings keeps a culture free.

Those who would control through manipulation, try to shut down others' ability to share feelings, by teaching judgment of feelings (tying k-nots) and, lately, with SSRI's and other CNS depressant drugs.

Restoring people's sovereignty over sharing their feelings is central to the work of the Tribe.

If enough people would share their anger, sadness and frustration about our current direction - and insist on having leaders who know how to receive, we might be able to see a reversal.
Wednesday, November 17, 2010

AHA: Feelings and Responsibility

Dear Ed and Tribe,

This morning, I feel like I understand the intimacy centric model. This is how I see it:

0+0 = 0
0+1 = 0
1+0 = 0
1+1 = 2

I take part in the Trading Tribe Process for over one year now and continue to enjoy it. Sometimes, I try and force an insight during the forms process. I feel like I receive good feedback from one of our tribe members at our last session - to focus only on experiencing my forms as they appear. I take the feedback as something I can work on during our next session. I let go of the thought of "having to have" an insight.

Insights seem to crystalize at "random" times thereafter. I feel like I have a breakthrough regarding my feelings and those of others. This is how I understand it now:

I am responsible for my own feelings
I am not responsible for the feelings of others
Nobody else is responsible for my feelings

These insights emerge following our last tribe session during which only a part (in italics) comes to light. Although I may have already been aware of these at a cognitive level, the understanding feels deep and seems to come from within now. I wonder if these are linked to the responsibility model in some way.

Ed, Thank you for sharing TTP with the rest of us. Tribe, Thank you for encouraging me to experience my forms.

Warm regards,
Thank you for sharing your process.
Tuesday, November 16, 2010

Radial Momentum

Hey Ed!

I just came across your Radial Momentum website today, courtesy of Tim Ventura's "American Antigravity" site.

I find your insights brilliant! You've now given me a rational
alternative to the Bernoulli theory, particularly in the example
of the "spool" type experiment! Thank You very much! :)

There is another fellow I came across recently who has also given me a boost. In the hope that you might also enjoy his work, let me introduce you to Alex Belov:

His insights into angular momentum are also quite brilliant. His very simple experiments also show that "standard physics" in that area is lacking.

Consequences of Belov's work could lead to practical inertial propulsion. His predecessors include Norman Dean and David Cowlishaw, but Belov has devised some ingeniously simple experiments to demonstrate his ideas, as well as some apparently cohesive math (although I'm not enough of a mathematician to evaluate it well.)

Thanks very much for publishing your insights on the web! :) You've made my day! :)

With kind regards,
Thank you for the link.  I like that he is able to demonstrate his principle with simple devices.
Tuesday, November 16, 2010

Likes Fractal Poem

Dear Ed,

I like your poem on fractals. Your conclusion "life is just a borderline" started me thinking: if life is just a borderline, perhaps the borderline is not stable. If it is always changing, that perhaps explains why we can never really determine it (calculate it) as you suggest in your poem.

If this is so, then I figure that the best approach to deal with this situation is probably a process a bit like surfing: you tend to have the most fun if you just stay focused on staying on the board and riding the wave to the end.

Not a lot of calculation and thinking is involved in this process - just a lot of feeling, sensation, balance, adjustment, intuition and movement - resulting in a great feeling of being alive. Perhaps its best to just love the feeling of constantly trying to stay on that borderline.

Thanks for taking the time to write your poem, publish it on the net, and let other people reflect on it.

Thank you for sharing your process and for your encouragement.




And one more question if you’ll hear it:

Are we flesh or are we spirit?

Does God exist and script the play

Or are we, rather, chunks of clay?

Lovers know as they entwine.

Life is just a borderline.

 (c) 1986 by Ed Seykota
Monday, November 15, 2010

From the Mouths of Babes - Clarity


I know you've been hearing about QE2 on the news and have been wondering when someone would fully explain the meaning and reasons behind its implementation, I thought you might enjoy listening to a brief conversation on the subject.

Click the link, put your feet up and give a listen and all will be made clear.
Thank you for the clip.
Monday, November 15, 2010



A little in extremis in some parts, but right on in spirit. And it will lead to fits of hilarious laughter as well as shock at conclusions…
Thank you for the clip.
Monday, November 15, 2010

Origins of OBV & Stochastics

Hi Mr. Seykota:

I am researching the claims that (1) Joseph Granville did not originate On-Balance Volume and (2) George C. Lane did not originate the stochastics indicator.

On the first one, the claim is that two gentlemen named Woods and Vignolia (unknown first names) invented OBV in about 1946, but there is no documentary proof of this assertion. Larry Williams has tried to locate the materials but has not been able to do so. Independently, I have come across a claim that a cumulative version of volume was being used by some as far back as 1948, but I have not seen documentary proof of this yet.

On the second one, the claim is that a gentleman named C. Ralph Dystant developed stochastics, although Lane and his successors claim that Lane "originated" the stochastics. I have spent a lot of time on this point.

Have you come across any hard evidence that sheds light on either of these claims? If so, I would love to see it. I am interested in documentary proof. I have acquired an oral history, but documents would be very helpful.

Any assistance you can provide is greatly appreciated.
I don't have much on the history of OBV or Stochastics.

As far as I know, I may be the promulgator of the term "core betting" somewhere around 1980.
Monday, November 15, 2010

ICE Accepts Bullion as Collateral


Looks as if i am not the only one thinking gold as unit of wealth these days.
Thank you for the link.
Monday, November 15, 2010

Bernoulli Principle on Myth Busters
(Airplane takeoff on a conveyor belt)

Hi Ed!

I am seeing this video on myth busters about flight. Maybe this video can add to your proof of Radial Momentum.

Thank you for the clip.

I do not see the connection to Bernoulli.

Lift is largely a function of angle of attack and wind speed relative to air - not tire speed on a conveyor belt.

Some Belts Have a Design ...

... With Take-Off in Mind.

Monday, November 15, 2010

Trend-Following Bees

Hello Mr. Ed,


I thought you might find this interesting:

Carpenter bees, which are known to strictly feed on pollen and plant nectar, have taken to killing red ants to prepare bee bread for their young ones. Scientists are attributing this new-found carnivorous streak in the bees to the insufficiency of pollen and nectar during the non-flowering season.

Read more: Herbivore bees find new food: Red ants - The Times of India


"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
--- Charles Darwin

With best regards
Thanks for the buzz.
Monday, November 15, 2010

New [City] Trading Tribe Chief

Hi Ed,

I want to check in and give you a brief update. I am taking on the role as chief of the [City] Trading Tribe. I look forward to supporting new members in their personal growth as you and all attendees supported me in my personal growth at the workshop. I have attached the information document for posting on the website.

Since the workshop my life has been set on a new path of towards achieving my bumper stickers: “I receive 10 million dollars under management” and “Seek mutually supportive relationships on the road to right livelihood”.

Since the meeting in July ’08, I have a beautiful healthy daughter born on 8/10/2009, I feel nervous at first as I don’t know if I can take care of and meet the needs of this tiny being. After spending time with her and just being there with her, that nervous feeling is replaced by joy and excitement. As she grows older and explores more and more of this wonderful world that we live in, I begin to see the world all over again through her eyes. It is beautiful!! I love that I am capable of allowing her to be her and supporting her on her own path to right livelihood.

My marriage begins to suffer, I feel lost, confused and hurt. I take these feelings to the tribe. I soon realize that I have gotten exactly what I wanted in my marital relationship. A relationship that I got to feel wrong, controlled and incompetent and those feeling drove me to become more and more dependent on my wife’s opinions of me. Not wanting to feel these feelings cause me to try harder and go to my wife and seek her approval. After many meetings, I have an ‘aha’ in the tribe and the tribe works with me to create a list of resource rocks to carry back into my marital relationship. My communication became more clear, confident and consistent with my wife. I believe I confused my wife at the time as I no longer felt the need to seek her approval. I attempt to receive her over and over regarding our relationship and she is unwilling to see it as a problem. After multiple tests of willingness on my part to see if I wanted to continue on with the relationship as it was, I keep coming up with a no each time. I get divorced.

I finalize my fully mechanical trading model that I have been working on for 5 years. I begin trading live on 1/15/2010 with my own funds to work out any real-time daily trading process logic oversights. I have 3 logic oversights that I am able to quickly and competently address and have made no changes since May 2010. My trading model takes 2 minutes a night to run (longer if orders need to be placed or changed with a broker).

My trading model allows me trade in backtest mode along with real-time trading mode, so that I can compare backtest results with real time results over the same time period to find out if there are any discrepancies in my trading logic and trade management (i.e... entry and exit execution dates and markets entered or not entered). My intention is that the only difference between the backtest run and real time run for a trading account that I am managing will be slippage (actual vs. simulated) and commissions and fees (actual vs. simulated). Due to my 3 logic oversights my personal real-time account does not match the backtest run for it. I feel confident that the backtest results I achieve when doing parameter research and start date dependency testing are able to be carried forward in real-time due to this real-time trading confirmation capability.

I take the Series 3 exam and pass and I am now registered with the NFA and CFTC as a Commodity Trading Advisor. I work with an attorney and accountant to get [Firm] created and organized. I present my trading model to both my attorney and accountant for insight and feedback on how I might best present my model to high net worth clients. After my initial presentation they both have 3 clients that they believe may be a good fit for my trading program once I have a sales presentation put together. I begin work on my sales presentation.

I lose my sales job recruiting for a proprietary university. I get exactly what I want as I want to focus 100% of my energies into getting money under management and getting [Firm] up and running.

I am in a drawdown and I feel great because I am following my system without question or hesitation. I am trading! I am living!

Ed, do you place any of your own funds with aspiring traders? If you do, I would like to sit down with you and present to you my trading model and my research to see if we might be able to work together in a mutually supportive relationship. I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you Ed for the Trading Tribe Process, I look forward to sharing it with others here in the [City] area,
Thank you for sharing your process.

An aspiring trader might be one who uses voiceless glottal fricatives such as the [h] in high or the [j] in the Spanish, jaca (pony).  It might also mean a trader who pumps stomachs - or one who relies on hope.

I am more likely to favor traders who demonstrate inspiration and perspiration.



 Monday, November 15, 2010

Commitment Update 11-15-10

Hello All,

It is a one year ago at Ed’s October 2009 workshop that I initiate the Commitment Process. It is a fantastic experience. I get more enjoyment out of my life, my work, my relationships. I feel much greater confidence in experiencing feelings, making them my friends, and leveraging all of them to meet the things I commit myself too. These are really amazing tools!

I receive several insights and notice several things since my last update.

When I’m talking to someone and the conversation shifts into more of an intimacy model, either when they start to experience a feeling or I do, there’s this effect on my vision for a second or less. My direct line of focus remains stable and peripheral vision just fades out.

I find deeper openness to noticing my feelings in following my system. I experience feelings of fear, insecurity, anxiety, greed, hope and rather than wishing them away so I can be “comfortable” or “peaceful.” Joy is another feeling I can experience in moment…I don’t need to be afraid to feel joy today for fear I’ll use it all up and not get to feel it tomorrow, as if feelings are something you can put on a depreciation schedule. There’s no holding onto a feeling, any of them.

I receive guidance from my feelings. Noticing anxiety about not having enough market exposure, noticing emotional resistance to selling, noticing hope in me, notice the “ugh, I just don’t want to pull the trigger again” feeling; these are very helpful feelings to experience. Recently I’ve come to notice what I call rigidity. Rigidity for me is holding onto a previous feeling or notion from a previous moment of now. When I notice rigidity I find it’s positive intention seems to be to wake me up to the now.

I continue into the rabbit hole of enjoying my imperfection. It’s becomes very eye-opening to me to see how much success one can achieve if he/she is willing to be imperfect.

I notice when I make money I crave security. I think there’s a knot in here for me deep down about limits, that there will only being so much opportunity or so much love or so much of anything and so when I get it the feeling is I better secure or I will lose it. I feel, like a lot ironies in this process, the craving to hold onto something is what creates the limits, not the other way around. I intend to explore <limits> and <limitlessness>.

I reach a deeper understanding of how the drawdown reloads the gun for the next swing up. It seems like a trend needs to look like it’s going to turn in order to recharge. Then eventually what looks like a recharge becomes the turn.

I want to develop resources for getting more done during the day. I’m not really sure where to go from here with this.

Recently I have a perspective shift on problems and challenges that I encounter. Be they in work or my relationship with my wife or children or wherever, the challenges I have are just the challenges I need. They’re mine, they’re my opportunities, my pivot points for new growth. They wouldn’t work for anyone else, at least in their exact form. And I feel gratefulness for them. A year ago this kind of perspective would sound hooky and Pollyanna to me, today it sounds like a choice I can make.

One great insight I receive from the commitment process is clarification on hard work. It seems that to say “hard work is necessary” is true but it’s incomplete. Ya, you have to do the hard work but you have to figure out what the right hard work to do is. For me I discover it’s the tenants of deliberate practice. It’s not worrying or over thinking or stressing, all of which are hard work. I suppose a lot of medicinal behaviors are very hard work, but not the proactive hard work. And find the hard work needs to be in a framework of a relaxed, positive attitude, not a punitive grind.

A good friend introduces me to a TV show, The Dog Whisper. I find watching The Dog Whisper is supportive of my process. The guy practices a lot of the principles of TTP.

I’m making this my final report. I’m grateful for all the support and feedback I receive from Ed and my support team over the past year.

I’ll be at Ed’s December workshop, perhaps I’ll get to see some of you there. Looking forward.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Saturday, November 13, 2010

Quantitative Easing Explained

Thank you for the video.

The truth is usually pretty simple.
Saturday, November 13, 2010

Angry about Profligacy

Hello Ed

How are you?

I watched this very interesting documentary the other night, its about the UK economy and how it is suffering due to the expanding public sector, the Lilliputian of the private sector, high tax rates, and high debts. It draws some interesting comparisons with the Hong Kong economy and basically confirms what you said on your econowmics pages that lowering taxes gives a huge boosts to a countries actual economic health.

The real debt of the UK is over 4 times higher than the "official figure" of 0.9 trillion at 4.4 trillion. Furthermore the shocking truth is that if every single house and flat in UK was sold at present market value the figure would not be enough to pay the debt back.

Watching it makes me angry with the profligate politicians and their ridiculous policies, and brings me closer to considering leaving England for some better place.
I would like to hear your views on the UK economy if you have any to share. It seems to me that England is in a dire situation very similar to the USA and makes me wonder just how much time we have before the whole system collapses in chaos.

Thank you for sharing your feelings.

If enough people would follow your example and care to share their feelings about this matter - and then to insist that their representatives receive these feelings, the situation might change.

In the meanwhile, you might consider some of the positive intentions for the growth in government.

As Long As We Are On A Roll ...

... With Government Spending ...

... We Are Likely

to have opportunities
to ride some big waves.

Friday, November 12, 2010

Wants Character Reference

Hi there Ed,

I just wanted to email and ask if you remember someone by the name of [Name]?

He claims to have met you and other traders in the 80s, he says (quote)

"[Name]'s beliefs comes from over 30 years experience in the markets ... started in 1985 and was lucky enough to fly to the US for a seminar in which he met Ed Seykota. Ed invited him to spend a weekend with himself and a group of his trading colleagues who got together to discuss trading. This meeting changed his style of thinking about trading and set him on a new course"

... I want to make verification of his credentials of meeting you?

Thanks for this Ed, heard and read a lot about you. Hope all is well with you.

Have a great day.

This doesn't ring a bell with me.

Perhaps you can find out the date, the nature of the seminar, other participants and other clues to help me place it.
Thursday, November 11, 2010

Can't Figure It Out


I can't figure out what the variable long is in the equation for the position granulator.

I'm learning programming and I plan on writing my own testing platform for trading systems. I have a lot of work ahead of me and for some reason I keep looking into the future at my trading system project. One thing on my mind is what the variable long means in the equation for position granulation. My guess is long stands for the longest time constant. A granule is a particle so maybe is means to break the position into parts.
Thank you for sharing your process.

you might consider taking you feelings about <can't figure it out> to Tribe.

In a Blaze of Insight

she figures it out
and saves her marriage.

If You Can't Figure it Out

read it to a friend
over the phone.

 Thursday, November 11, 2010

Wants Exemption for the Workshop


Can I be in your meeting Trend is your friend?

Can I come to your meeting, if:
1. I can pay using credit card
2. I did not read your book and don't now anything about your AHA's method.
3. Can not write any Essie's
4. But did your Simple Expon Crossover and Support and Res models in the VB=and SAS, send them to you year ago.

Is it be just time to spend money without nothing to understand?

Just to read your book, and came next time?

Thanks a lot for teaching,
I do not wish to participate in putting you deeper in debt.

You might consider taking your feelings about <debt> and <following the rules> to Tribe.


The Ultimate Addiction.


The Ultimate Addiction.


The Ultimate Addiction.