The Trading Tribe
(c) Ed Seykota 2003-2011 - Write for permission to reprint.
Ed Seykota's FAQ

FAQ February 1-10, 2010
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Readers Say Ed Says
Thursday, February 10, 2010

A Mathematical / Spiritual Proof - (video)

Dear Ed,

Regarding your investigations into the compatibility of TTP with religion, you might enjoy this mathematical proof.
Thank you for the link.
Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:56 PM

Tribe Addresses

Dear Ed:

Long time no see! I recently went into your site, and realize all the tribe address is gone.

Someone from Thailand emailed me, and would like to participate in our meeting(s). We only meet if there are at least 4 people.

In any event, would you post up our contact details again??


Ed (I attended the meeting that you and Charles Faulkner hosted in Reno in 2007, and I am a graduate of TTP)
See the Resources link above, then go to How to Join a Tribe.
Thursday, February 10, 2011

NJ Tribe Update - Drudge Free


I went to my first Trading Tribe meeting on 1-30-11 in Florham Park NJ. I am nervous but feel compelled to go to the meeting, when I get there everyone shares that they feel a bit nervous too.

I find myself volunteering for the "hot seat" where I am told to get into my feelings and what is bothering me. I say I am bothered by having to send a daily statement to my Dad, who is a client.

I am bothered because I hate having any down day and then having to report it to him. I feel like this is a power play. Then I get deep into my memories of my relationship with him from my childhood.

Surprising things come up, unexpected in fact. I have guilt towards him from an outburst I directed at him when I was a teenager. I would expect that I would feel the hurt from his treatment of me when I was young, not have guilt towards him. I also talk about my isolation from my wife. I spend the next week deepening my connections with my brothers and trying to cross the void between my wife and me.

I am more intimate oriented now, but also feel like there is too much “Drama under the bridge” to ever get back to level ground in my marriage. I feel like I am floating, feeling like I have given up control. I also learn at the meeting that I am distracted from my trading system by playing with Elliott Waves, Drudge Report, and trading boards.

My system needs no help from my mystical divination of the news and universe; in fact it adds stress and turmoil to my life. I am happy to report I am Drudge free for almost two weeks now and stress has receded greatly.

Its also easier to send those daily statements.

Thank you for sharing your process.

I wonder if your decision to avoid the site spells the end for Matt.


028,799,918 IN PAST 24 HOURS
819,346,135 IN PAST 31 DAYS
9,348,434,975 IN PAST YEAR
Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:31 AM

More Fear of Flying

As I'm about to board the airplane I feel a creeping loss of control which is forcing me against my will to give up and surrender completely. It is a feeling of forced loss of control. I am clinging onto my waning freedom and slowly being dragged into compliance but I want to fight as long as I can I don't want to give in even though I know resistance is futile.

As I sit in my airline seat I run through the possible escapes. We are still on the ground so I could run to the front and ask to be let off or jump out the emergency exit. As the plane takes off I relinquish these possibilities because now they would mean certain death. Now in the air my unconditional surrender is complete. My freedom stands at 0 and commitment at 100. Complete loss of freedom feels painful and I don't like it. But this time I decide that this is a opportunity for understanding and growth and I try to celebrated the pain.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Thursday, February 10, 2011

Anchors Aweigh


I start with thanks, to Ed, Charles and Workshop friends. This week my wife is out of town at review course for big exam that will help our exam when she passes. My role expands while she is gone and I learn how to perform office administration. I am intimidated at first, yet persist and find fears exaggerated. I take our two kids back and forth to school each day, and we have time to talk on the 20 minute rides. We send and receive messages in the car as I introduce them to new concepts like anchoring, framing thoughts, giving them a taste of NLP. I read NLP and teach myself a few concepts. I realize and meditate on the idea that “the map is not the territory.”

I pull up my account and note 3 of the last 4 trades are profitable. The one stock down is down modestly, but I take note and consider selling it at a small loss. Two stocks I have limit buys on have not executed but I do not stress over this. I am allowing myself to be pleased at what is working. I learn from Schwager interview with Charles Faulkner that various maps can be true, yet we use the one that works for us at the time. I learn this applies to investment strategies too. They have their seasons.

I learned at workshop from Ed that when we commit people appear in our life to supply us with tools we need, support of various kinds. So I commit to working out and my personal trainer appears and supports me. I commit to losing weight and her dad coaxes me along with healthy food charts, calls me and checks in to see how I am doing, and I return this acknowledgement and enjoy personal growth, while encouraging his as well.

I consider anchoring concept, turn it over and share it with kids, and in doing so relive some memories, give examples to kids (sending) of events and how we anchor and frame. Driving home I realize (Aha!) how anchoring had jaded my trading for two long years! I anchored the Bear with a big ole’ chain. I recall event, reshape it with music, it loses emotion, chain falls away. Mind frees up. Fingers move again. “A clenched fist can do no work.”

I order books by Bandler, Bateson, Maturana, Grof to better learn how my brain works, consciousness and sub consciousness, self-hypnosis, NLP.

NLP is map, not territory. Some maps are inaccurate! NLP helps me make changes from what does not work to what does. I learn “moving toward” and “moving away from” steps to excellence. Programming mind like computer begins to gel and I comprehend.

Snow storm throws me into a program of digging out. Everything else practically stops for a week. This passes, and the program changes. I sense how last week’s weather response gets a little depressing, upsets system, it is like market noise, and it tries to persist into this week, but I recognize it for old form of inertia, restock and reload! Put gloves back on and go boxing!

Solving multitudes of little issues, from broken automobiles to transportation logistics to trading systems, and this is incredibly fulfilling, living in responsibility rather than at cause! I share and inspire others and they share and inspire me back. I become acutely aware the same happens when I am negative. My negative tone of voice is virtually sure to generate more negatives, the opposite of what I want. I start to send a text and at the end tack on some snarky summary. Then thanks to greater awareness, delete that before sending to my wife. Snarky begets injury, and why! Do more of what works, less of what doesn’t. Model excellent behaviors.

So I am grateful to TTP and learning at very rapid pace to be more respectful, forgive people, embrace changes, study hard and then back off and breathe deeply, form and nurture good habits. I like my two teaspoons of natural apple cider vinegar, 4 oz of cranberry juice, and a teaspoon of all natural unpasteurized honey in the morning now. I snack on fruit instead of junk now and my waist line is shrinking. My iron worker “corner man” coaches me not to worry about how fast I am changing but to concentrate on forming good habits. This is priceless.

In 6 hours I will sweat in boxing, after dropping my daughter off at dance and gymnastics. I quietly pray to inspire my son to re-frame, pick up anchor and get in the wind, as a father loves his son. I breath a positive in his direction and it returns with a question. We all clean the kitchen last night and go to bed. I mention this because this is life for me lived effectively, not perfectly. The kitchen is the territory! The market is the territory! Next Saturday I return to my running group to begin this year’s training session for new half marathon because this works, and I want to do more of this. The same mental toughness that pushed me through training last year will push me through this year. That mental toughness and persistence can be transferred to other areas of life. I credit NLP with helping me know this better, Ed and Charles and TTP with inspiring me to stretch and grow in so many ways I never knew were possible, integrated, systematic.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Thursday, February 10, 2011

Fear of Flying
See previous: Smoldering Airplanes

Good Morning,

I would like to share my feelings related to flying. Woke up this morning noticing a smoldering in the pit of my stomach. This smoldering has a hollowing effect above it mostly in the left side of my rib cage. This all seems to be connected to what feels like a heaviness in my heart. My breathing is slow and strained. I notice various aches around my body like my elbow, knee and hip. Every physical action seems to be slowed by a feeling of heaviness and weight.

Upon writing this I feel some of the heaviness lifting. My breathing feels less strained and lighter. In fact my whole body seems lighter. I feel the smoldering in my stomach has retreated to a small area in the bottom left.

This seems amazing to me. I'm realizing now that I short circuited the resource of my unconscious to shut down my body before I fly.

I short circuited by writing how I feel in this email. Somehow a large part of the burning and heaviness in my body has transferred from my body into the words/the body of this email. Its something like the words expressing the feelings are a conduit and storage area for the feelings and are carrying the charge away from me.

Right now I notice a slight heaviness/restriction in my breathing, mild pangs of pain in my joints and a mild smoldering in the pit of my stomach.

In closing I still have some feelings/reactions about flying but I would say the feelings have diminished from a level 8 to a level 2.

Thank you,
Thank you for sharing your process.

You might consider taking your feelings to Tribe.
Thursday, February 10, 2011

Divorcing with Caring


I have a talk with my wife. We have been separated for over one year and she wants to divorce me. I tell her that I am sad about it, because I know that she is a great girl and still thought that it could work. I mention that I worked really hard on me and on the relationship. She acknowledges it. But she mentions that she does not want to open up and share her feelings, she would feel exposed and loss control (she uses exactly these words). I realize that we have different ideas about relationships, and they are just not compatible.

However, our relationship is excellent. She even helps me as I move to a new apartment (a nasty job!). She acknowledges my fear about her or a lawyer breaking my neck (according to the local law, I should pay her a huge amount of money) and we reach a very fair financial agreement. Our children are doing very well, at school and at home. I have a great communication with them. My wife tells me that she imagines me remaining as father and friend. She is also doing well and feels relieved. I see that the communication with her is very difficult, but I accept her the way she is.

Best regards,
Thank you for sharing your process.
Wednesday, February 9, 2011

The Scoop on Poop

Dear Ed,

During the checkout at the meeting, one member comments that even though we’ve all attended a workshop and have read your book several times, we still need you to guide us in the process of sending and receiving feelings.

I’m at home with my wife and our four-year old son and notice they are attempting to send and receive feelings with one another and they get stuck, just like we do sometimes in tribe. I offer to be their training wheels and provide examples of what to say:

“I feel frustrated.”

“You feel frustrated. Thank you for telling me how you feel. Are you willing to receive my feelings?”

“Yes, I’m willing to receive your feelings.”

“I feel sad and frustrated.”

“You feel sad and frustrated. Thank you for telling me you feel sad and frustrated.”

“Thank you for receiving my feelings.”

I basically just follow the script of sending and receiving feelings, and they both send and receive. Once they feel their feelings and express them, the feelings seem to disappear.

We make an agreement to receive one another whenever someone wants to feel feelings and send feelings. This creates a lot of space for intimacy.

We experience more intimacy then we ever have. I feel closer to my wife and son now, and we are moving more toward an intimacy-based relationship as we all let go of control.

Tonight our son, who is four-years old, told us that he put some poop in the kitchen and it’s been there about a week. We all went into the kitchen and he opened the cabinet doors under the sink and showed us where he spread poop on the pipes. I said, “Thank you. I acknowledge my intention for you to put poop on the pipes.”

He looked up at me and said, “I’m going to go get some rags and warm water and clean them.”

I said, “OK.”

Then he cleaned the pipes and even put on some disposable gloves to disinfect them with cleaning solution.

Before going to his bed tonight, he came and gave me a bigger, longer lasting hug than usual. I feel the intimacy.

Less control. Less drama. More intimacy.

Thank you, Ed. (Hand touching heart.)

Thank you, Austin Tribe.
Thank you for sharing your process - and the way you apply the intimacy-centric model.

Toilet Training

in the control-centric model
can be a war.

In the intimacy-centric model
it can be a joy.

Wednesday, February 9, 2011

TTP and Catholicism


After getting your email on the two traders coming to join us and the need to make a 2 minute talk, I became excited. I then went to the FAQ and read the updates. When I came to the letter about Catholic confession I felt a strong desire to also reply. Below this email will be my reply. I spent a little bit of time on this and now must sleep as I have a full day tomorrow getting to Austin before the meeting.

I don't want to argue with how you may believe the bible is wrong. I need to give a reply when it appears to me you are saying the bible cannot be true. I am sure I have not done the argument justice since I typed and looked a few things up on the computer quickly, please forgive the less than adequate reply as I am out of time.

Also, you seemed to push the issue onto the Catholic church. I state in the reply that I don't know what the 'Catholic church' states; all I can do is look at what the bible says.



You assigned someone the task of evaluating the position of the Catholic church on anger and lust. I first admit I felt you were challenging my beliefs. I am hopeful you are only trying to get him to defend why he believes. I am not Catholic but I am Christian. Before this subject came up in FAQ I had been planning to do a study on the intimacy-model and the bible. Thank you for bringing this subject up.

Of course this will not be an exhaustive study but I wanted to write something down immediately. So don’t expect this to be an exhaustive look. I wanted to see if Jesus gets angry and how He uses that anger. I am not sure what the Catholic church says but lets look at some examples from the bible.

In John 2:14-17: 14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father’s house a house of trade.” 17 His disciples remembered that it was written, ◙ “Zeal for your house will consume me.”

In Mark 3: 5. 5 And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.

Let’s look at His anger. He was angry for the right reasons. It wasn’t about petty things or about personal things to Him. His anger was focused and targeted. The anger that Jesus had at those times never caused him to be out of control or to sin. This anger did not cause Him to hold grudges.

There are several other examples but I wanted to point out a few. So Jesus doesn’t say anger is wrong. Why did Jesus get angry? Because at the core, the things happening at that time were going against God’s holiness and preventing proper worship.

Anger is an emotion not a sin. It is what we do with that emotion that is either sin or not. You state that TTP is only a theory; as such it's inherently it's wrong, but it helps to explain things.

Do some people say anger or being angry is wrong? Yes. Without careful study people can make wrong assumptions. We are all susceptible to issues of anger and being unable to communicate in proper ways. Christians have issues and rocks just like everyone else.

My favorite quote about Christians came from a Buddhist. He said, I like their Christ; I just don’t like their Christian.

We Christians are like everyone, we fail in treating people correctly and that is why we are people and not God.


You spoke of Lust and how the Catholics look at lust. Again, I am not catholic and disagree with them on some things but I would like to look at your example in more depth.

I believe you used the King James Version of scripture. I looked at two other versions that render a more literal translation to the Greek manuscripts that I think will help bring out the meaning. I will give you the three versions:

King James:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

The bold letters in the last two translations give a better description of the meaning of the scripture. These last two verses show that it is the intent of that desire that is sin (much like the emotion of anger). Simply looking at another woman is not wrong, it is what is in your heart and mind at the time that is displeasing to God.

I believe God is also pointing out in this verse that sin is sin. That even though a physical sin such as murder is terrible and a sin; at the same time a person that has such a hatred for another man in his heart that he would consider murdering another is sinning against a holy God. Both are sins but doing the act causes many other terrible things to happen.

Let’s look at the scripture through TTP. God is saying in this verse that you are not to lust after a woman that is not your wife or have the intent in your heart to ‘have her’.

So if you feel this emotion of lust in your heart and you are a follower of Christ, then you should recognize that feeling and realize you are not in line with a holy and righteous God.

Basically, a man feels lust for another woman, he recognizes the emotion and wonders ‘why am I feeling lust for a woman that is not my wife?’ (just like in TTP)

He realizes that there is something missing in his life. Maybe it is intimacy (just like in TTP) and he sets out to find out what he is missing. Is his marriage not good? Does he need to work on intimacy with his wife? Is following his God really a priority in his life?

So I believe lust is another emotion the bible uses to help us examine if our ‘house’ is in order with our family and with our God. How is this different than what TTP does? Do you believe there are moral laws? I believe you do.
Thank you for sharing your process.

I do not hold that the Bible is wrong; I hold it as an extremely powerful and effective collection of the material supporting the faith.

The word "bible" comes from the Greek word biblia, meaning books.  Bibles originally refers to collections of the early sacred Judeo-Christian writings.

Thank you for your willingness to dig into this matter; the Bible, in its many forms, is one of the most powerful influences on our society and on us as individuals.

I hold that love is a verb and that you come to know love by the actions of the lover.

The lover supports the "lovee" by promoting the lovee's interests according to the lovee's definition.

I hold that Intentions = Results and that you do not know the intention of a feeling until you see the result - at which point you can determine if the intention-result is loving.

That is, feelings are neither righteous or sinful; actions can be either.

I do not attach to a particular way of viewing the world, or to a particular model for spirituality.

Many religions proclaim that knowledge of the Almighty is fundamentally un-knowable and that the Way is through personal experience.

Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Compatibility of TTP and Catholicism

Dear Ed,

Thank you for your considered and insightful feedback regarding my tribe report and for your willingness to allow me attend the meeting with a late arrival. I am grateful for the respect you show for my commitment to my family and my faith.

I would be pleased and honored to present to the tribe my findings with regard to reconciling TTP and the teachings of the Catholic Church on the matter of the positive intentions of feelings. It is a difficult challenge, but it will be a useful exercise for me to undertake, and I am willing to do so in order to understand both my faith and TTP better, with the greater goal of learning how to serve others more effectively and lovingly.

Thank you for volunteering to look into the matter of the compatibility of TTP and Catholicism.

Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Smoldering Airplanes

Hi Ed,

Wanted to share a observation from the last tribe meeting. When [Name] interrupted your talking right at a pause I found it interesting how you shared your feelings about being frustrated and then celebrated [Name] exactly the way he is.

Typically if someone frustrates me I want them to feel frustrated so they know how I feel. I then go through great pains to find a way to frustrate the person. I realized I could simplify the process by just using words to make them know what I feel. I like this method much better.

Also, wanted to share some feelings related to my issue with flying.

Most of the feeling in my stomach has been extinguished and all that's left is something like the corpse of a feeling hanging around there in my stomach all shrunken up and deflated but still doling out an occasional pang of pain when I focus strongly on the up coming flight.

The feeling has been stripped of most of its power thru the acting of describing it in email but I can sense it is still in there deep down conserving itself in order to fight a better fight another day.

This is a very powerful feeling with what seems like a life of its own, including its own defenses and instincts to survive.

This all seems very strange and I'm somewhat uncomfortable writing this because I'm worried you will think I'm crazy. But it is what it is.

When the smoldering feeling in my stomach retracted within a few minutes I felt a strong headache in my temples. I generally do not get headaches so having this feeling is very new and painful to me. It almost feels like retaliation from the smoldering feeling in my stomach for deflating it. Like its saying "okay you want to take me out?? Well I'm going to give you a strong headache as I retreat to teach you not to mess with me."

I'm committed to the process and to be accountable so the headache is not a strong enough deterrent to stop me. I must go on communicating everything about this feeling even if sometimes I feel like I'm a burden or I'm crazy or I'm paying for it with a headache.

So I will leave you with this update for now, the strong smoldering between my lower stomach and my bottom ribs has transformed into a light smoldering with a strong initial headache that has flattened out to a lingering headache. So doesn't feel like the emotion has left me but merely transformed itself.

Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your process.

Sometimes You Can Tell

what's in your stomach
by how it feels.

Wednesday, February 9, 2011

My Trading System

Hello Ed,

I want to show you my system for your consideration according to what we spoke in Austin the last meeting. Any comments you might have are greatly appreciated. I am looking forward to the meeting tomorrow. It is my intention not to interrupt you anymore.

Perhaps we can use your system to illuminate some trading principles at the next Tribe meeting.
Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Volcanic Wife

Tribe Meeting Report


The second tribe meeting brings many moments of clarity for me in helping me to remember how to use the intimacy model for communications with others to remove the drama from the situation. It is a skill I once used but let fall away, and it proved useful a few days later in a situation with my wife. We got into one of our pattern quarrels about some relatively insignificant thing which turned into a session of back and forth where she was venting like a volcano at me, and I remained calm, reasonable and rational, which infuriated her more.

My wife got very defensive when I asked her how she had done something, and without me saying it, she knew that I had judged that she had done it the wrong way. I didn't say anything, but my eyes made a gesture, perhaps a roll, and I sighed under my breath. She exploded at me, verbally berating me for criticizing the way she did whatever it was, and then launched into a harangue about how her life is nothing but me criticizing her all day long. This was all done at a yelling volume.

When I protested, calmly, quietly, that I hadn't said anything, and said I had expressly NOT said anything because I didn't want to criticize her, it didn't matter. The volume got louder.

I asked her, calmly, if she thought it was appropriate to criticize me in the way she was doing it, if criticizing is such a bad thing to do?

This logical, calm, analytical response, which had the added insult of exposing her hypocrisy, infuriated her all the more.

I pleaded with her, on behalf of the kids in the other room, to bring her tone down and let's talk about how it made her feel in a normal tone of voice. She said she was doing it because I just criticize her all the time and I will never change, and so it is justified.

So, then I started screaming back at her at the same tone, level and pitch that she used with me. Rather than arguing calmly as I had been, which was clearly not working, I responded in the way she was. But I was using the intimacy model in that I was screaming "HOW DO YOU FEEL WHEN I RESPOND TO YOU IN THE WAY YOU ARE TALKING TO ME? DO YOU ENJOY BEING YELLED AT? WHEN YOU YELL AT ME LIKE THIS IT MAKES ME FEEL SMALL AND ANGRY AND FRUSTRATED. HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL? WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO TALK TO YOU THE WAY YOU ARE TALKING TO ME ALL THE TIME? HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL?"

Probably not an optimal way to engage the intimacy model and build rapport, though. She threatened to leave and take the kids - right then, and raised a cereal bowl above her head as though to strike me with it. One of the kids was in the bathtub and she went in there and told him to get dressed because she was going to take the kids and leave. I told her she was going to do no such thing, and we sort of broke into mutual corners, and she resumed making dinner and I went into the living room and sat down with my daughter.

I felt good, being able to express my anger and frustration with her like that, which I rarely do. She seemed a bit surprised at the real, raw emotion coming from me, which I usually keep bottled up, but which she has developed sonar to detect - like the rolling of the eyes, the subtle sighs. She almost seemed relieved at my outburst and rant. I felt like I was standing up to an emotional terrorist or bully, and that felt good too.

Later, at dinner in the dining room, one of our children asked why we fought like that. I explained that it was a little thing which set it off, but that what they had heard was that Mommy and Daddy had some feelings of anger and frustration we wanted to express to each other, which had probably built up for a long time, and the event which caused the quarrel was just a little thing which gave us a chance to communicate some things we needed to communicate with one another but hadn't. I apologized to them on our behalf, and told them that they didn't need to worry, that Mommy and Daddy loved each other and were committed to each other in our marriage, but that sometimes couples have to communicate how they feel honestly, and that sometimes gets loud. I told them that Mommy and Daddy needed to do a better job communicating our feelings to one another so that things didn't build up to the point where they blew up in such a spectacular fashion.

The kids seemed to get it, and my wife, in a strange way, seemed validated by that acknowledgement and explanation of what had just happened. I reckon she felt like I had heard her and received her communication, which is one of the charges she makes when these rare squabbles come up - that I don't hear her. I think using the intimacy model more consistently with her would improve my relationship with her for this reason.

But practicing the intimacy model with my wife is difficult. She is a bit of a clam when it comes to expressing how she is feeling. I ask about how she is feeling all the time, but it is difficult to get her to the point where she is willing to express them honestly. She never asks, and I don't do a good job of remembering to ask her if she would like to hear how I feel. I would like to understand better how to practice the intimacy model with someone who has difficulty establishing and maintaining intimate communications.
Thank you for sharing your process.

You might consider that you are both co-creating your wife's behavior and your own and that you are "lighting her fuse."

For example:

I protested <-- judgment.

if appropriate <-- judgment

exposing her hypocrisy <-- judgment

on behalf of the kids <-- guilt trip

Then when you "lose it" and start yelling, you start expressing your feelings and you stop judging her.  She seems to prefer this - although she might appreciate a kindler, gentler application.

You might consider taking this issue to Tribe for further investigation and resolution.

If Your Woman Looks Like This

you can take the credit.

Wednesday, February 9, 2011

The Role of the Manager

Dear Ed,

Thank you for all your support via the Trading tribe website .

update on my process : my trading is boring since i stick to my system ...and profitable ,i spend more time with the essential tribe and no more time trying to find the holy trading grail on the internet .

a question for you : i have been working for 4 years as a sales manager and the more i read and study and expand my awareness of how i want to live the more i am questioning my job description ..who am i to tell the people in my team how they should do their work and what expected behavior is for sales professionals .What is your view of the role of a manager ?
You might consider applying the intimacy-centric relationship model with your employees and discover your answers together.
Wednesday, February 9, 2011



I was watching Oprah yesterday and she shared an interesting thought (at least to me). "Forgiveness begins when we are willing to let go of the hope that the past can be any better,"

It is a new concept that includes willingness to release hope. I am "chewing" on this. Hope you have a happy tribe day tomorrow.
Thank you for sharing your process.

In traditional therapy forgiveness has to do with "letting it go" and "absolving the perpetrator" and "moving on."

In TTP we hold that our behavior follows from childhood modeling, primarily of our parents. 

One parent is generally the perpetrator and the other is the victim.  Sometimes we model the perpetrator and sometimes we model the victim.

In either case, forgiveness is the act of returning the "rock" or response pattern to the parent who is the rock donor.

In cases where we model the victim, the conventional method of forgiving the perpetrator has little or no effect in changing our own behavior; forgiving the perpetrator is just more reinforcement of the victim rock.

In TTP, Forgiveness

has nothing to do with awarding a pardon
to the perpetrator.

It has to do with giving the rock back
to the person who is our teacher
about how to invite the drama
in the first place.

Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Trading as Medication for Feelings #2
See previous for February 7,


I notice my comments are titled “Trading as Medication for Feelings”. I wonder if you can elaborate more? I include items highlighted.

I like to take a significant position…something meaningful. I get in the position, set my stop and then after the trade has advanced maybe 10-20% of its potential and there is a mild pullback I get out and then watch as the market moves away in great strides.

I am curious if this is medication or simply a “replay” of the feelings? If there is a virus inserted into computer code it may run normally until it gets to the area where the virus resides and then jumps to play the virus or whatever alternate script is inserted. You also comment that “When you scold a child you also teach a child how to scold”…is this code that is running a form of scolding or punishment? The feeling I derive from your comments is the scolding I learn from my father I learn most to do this to myself. When a child is very young and “scolded” is this interpreted as “love” in some sort of demented sense as a means of protecting the child’s sense of security in regards to their relationship to a parent?

Another version is to wait for the right position then to get in, set a stop and get so anxious about getting stopped out that I impulsively get out…only to watch as the market blasts off like a rocket to the moon.

I comment previously regarding OCD/autistic type symptoms and I notice this is evident also when an impending trade is coming up. I would associate it like the music beginning to play in the movie Inception. The feeling builds as the music gets louder. I get very anxious at certain points of the market structure. This seems to work ok to me with being alert and connecting at the spot where my feelings and the chart collide. What happens after I get in the trade and set the stop seems to contain all the wrong script…the virus, so to speak. In my mind I know the opportune times to pyramid the position but this is also where I shut down…go blank. In my mind I see the other side of the chart unfolding but I feel this impending pressure…anxiety. It seems illogical…all I need to do is add accordingly and trail a stop.

A tribe member describes a trading pattern that I identify with. He explains that he gets into a position, a good position then he feels anxious and indecisive and goes through a process of buy/sell until some type of emotional climax at which point he gets out of everything. He then gets to watch the market advance/decline and he has exited a good trade.

I notice that over the course of time in working in tribe my trading process is evolving. I notice the impulsive buy/sell scenario as not evident currently. I may go through a burst of 2-3 attempts at a position but the loss is self limiting.
Thank you for your follow-up.

In general, trading is, at one extreme, a rather routine, even boring, mechanical job - and at the other extreme a hornets nest of excitement.

If you find yourself operating toward the exciting end, you might consider that you might be (1) re-enacting a childhood pattern and / or using the excitement as medication for some deeper issues.

You might consider taking your questions to Tribe to help identify and resolve the drama underlying your trading.

If Your Trading Feels Like This

you might consider
something other than math
is driving your trading.

Wednesday, February 9, 2011


Dear Mr. Seykota,

I saw that my blog,

was mentioned in FAQ section,

that your quotes were published without permission.

I want to apologies for this and i already remove these posts. Your insights and quotes made great influence for me as a person and trader that is the reason to put them in the blog.

Best regards,
Thank you for your email and for your concern about having permission to use my quotes.

You have my permission and you are free to use your compilation of my quotes on your site.

Your compilation, as it appears on my site -
now also includes some minor typographic editing.

I am removing my own comment about the curious situation of re-copying my own quotes.
Tuesday, February 8, 2011

First Confession


My son ... will make his first confession at our church on Thursday evening, so I will be unable to attend the Tribe meeting this week. I could come over after the ceremony, which should be completed by eight, if you will allow me to do so.

Thank you for the heads-up on your son's first confession.

As I recall, during the Reno Workshop,
you also miss part of the session on account of attending Sunday Mass.  I gather your faith is of primary importance to you and that you think deeply about your spiritual practices.

In this regard, and in lieu of timely attendance at Tribe, you might consider engaging a research and thinking project on behalf of the Tribe, namely: define and evaluate the Catholic Church position on anger and lust.

In TTP we hold that all feelings (including anger and lust) have positive intentions and that sharing feelings - particularly early and before they build up - is essential to living the intimacy-centric model.

In the teachings of various churches, including the Catholic Church, I gather that some feelings are sinful, particularly anger and lust; consider a strict interpretation of Matthew 5:28: "Whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart."

The Catholic teachings have an extensive cartography for sin, fanning out from the major categories of mortal sin and venial sin.

In TTP we hold that judging feelings (such as by calling them sinful) tends to hamper the identification and expression of feelings and tends to thwart the formation of intimacy in relationships.  It also tends to promote the control-centric model.

For example, people who think the feeling of anger is sinful, tend to suppress their anger feelings rather than address their own deeper personal boundary issues - until they finally blow up at each other, sometimes in front of the children.

In TTP we consider such blow-up behavior to be abusive of children, hence inappropriate and in your terms, sinful.

As you are now guiding your son through his first confession, this topic may be particularly vital to you and to others who are engaging in formative child-rearing. 

I would like to get your best research and thinking on how to reconcile the Church notion of sinful feelings with the TTP notion of positive intention of all feelings.

I wonder if you might like to make a presentation of your findings at 8:00 PM,
and to also prepare an associating statement of your position for FAQ.

Please illustrate your talk with examples from your own life, particularly in the matter of how you handle anger with your wife and how your strategies might be affecting your son and his development.

Confession App

helps people get into the sin game
without having to risk intimate
personal contact with a confessor.

Tuesday, February 8, 2011

34 Inch Waist Commitment Monthly Update

Hi All,

A month into my commitment and things are going well. I’ve dropped 8-11 pounds (some variation in measurement) and I’m sticking to my system.

My support team (including my wife) is a very big help. I thank you for your suggestions in dealing with food cravings.

I’m reframing my relationship with food…changing my mental and emotional association with eating what I want from feelings of < freedom> and <doing what I want> to feelings of being <bogged down> and <numbed out> from overeating. I also explore enjoying the feeling of light hunger, feeling more alert and productive from it.

I notice some associations between how I eat and how I trade. The feeling of wanting to eat everything that looks good and trying to be long everything that looks good seem similar. They seem to yield similar results. I don’t know what the feeling is there, but I seem to be in the process of experiencing it to some moderate extent.

Thank you all very much for your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Tuesday, February 8, 2011

Tribe Report - Interruptions

Hello Ed,

I got a lot of insights from the last tribe meeting.

* I interrupt people like crazy, I did the same thing in another workshop last week and I remember you at that moment. It is curious how I only do this in public meetings. Maybe I have to work on my feelings of "being noticed" and "having to ask questions".

* The workshop and tribe meetings have provided me with and unexpected gift: I have met a couple of people who are REALLY helping me through advice, and through their example.

* I have realized that everything makes sense the moment we stop thinking about causes, this is very counter intuitive but certainly true.

* But this is the best part: after the meetings and talking with [Name] I have come to the conclusion that I can achieve WHATEVER I REALLY WANT. I notice how in the past I have met all my goals when they were really my intention. This has changed the focus of my thoughts, rather that doing ritualistic stuff to achieve "something" I am even sure about, I concentrate in figuring out what I want, the results will take care of themselves.

I am looking forward to the next meeting.
Thank you for sharing your process.

 Monday, February 7, 2011

January 27 Tribe Meeting: Follow-Up Report
Portfolio Heat and Father Issues
and Electricity

Dear Ed,

At last week's tribe meeting several members seem to be experiencing strong feelings about their fathers. As I listen to their issues I feel myself getting emotional as well. Later in the meeting when I ask you a question about my goal of increasing my portfolio heat, you respond that my issue might also relate to my father.

You comment that my reluctance to increase my portfolio heat might relate to my unwillingness to surpass my father's achievements. You observe that I might be comfortable flying under the radar screen, and might be uncomfortable with the feelings of being exposed. Your comments strike a chord.

I feel very uncomfortable when my fund is setting new equity highs. I usually experience a feeling of electricity shooting up and down my arms, which I do not like. This is similar to the feeling I get when I am being criticized by my father, or meeting with a powerful authority figure.

The next day I talk to my wife about your observations. Your comments resonate with her as well. She reminds me of the labels I live under during my childhood, when my parents routinely state that I am "good for nothing," and when my mother exclaims that she wishes "I was never born." She remarks that "I've been billed at half-price my entire life." Her comments seem to ring true, and add further clarity to my process.

I experience a lot of anger as I hear those observations and recall those memories. I also feel sad. I am tired of living in a box that limits my success. I want to break out, both for my sake and the sake of my family. As I experience this anger and sadness I make a number of decisions and commitments. I commit to seeing a person about a potential business deal. I commit to increasing my portfolio heat before the next tribe meeting. I commit to clarifying an important business contract.

I see the person about the potential business deal. This person is like my father in some ways. He has a dominant personality, is very opinionated, and hates to take no for an answer. Nevertheless, the meeting goes very well. I use the techniques I learn in tribe about building rapport and expressing feelings, and in the meeting I am able to maintain my boundaries without being overrun. Even though the outcome is not what I expect, I like the way the meeting flows. I like the strength and clarity I experience in the meeting. I also like the way my relationship with this person evolves. This is a huge step in my personal development.

A few days later I have another meeting with another powerful personality. The goal of the meeting is to clarify an important business contract. This second person is just like my father -- opinionated, dismissive, and eager to criticize. In that meeting I again build rapport and express how I feel without resorting to argument. Though this person is intimidating, I control the conversation and am able to ask for what I want. At a few points in the meeting I sense the feeling of being overrun, but rather than simply going silent I respond by talking about my feelings. When I do this the other person stops and asks what it is I want. Pretty cool! Though I do not obtain all of the clarification I seek, I get many answers and a commitment to have the process complete within a short period of time.

I feel good about my performance. Usually, when I face dominant authority figures I have a hard time maintaining my personal integrity. I feel overrun in the conversation, and become so charged with emotion that I fall silent and fail to ask for what I want. Sometime I enter agreements which I really don't like. In both of my meetings I am able to avoid those pitfalls. I feel very good about my progress.

My next goal is to increase my portfolio heat, which I plan to do in the next two days.

Thank you for supporting my process.
Thank you for sharing your process.

Your symptoms also match those for cervical radiculopathy, radiculitis and (for the lower extremities) sciatica - and may indicate intervertebral disc herniation.

If feel you might have a physical condition [the tests for radiculitis group can be inconclusive] you might like to postpone getting into energetic forms until you determine you are unlikely to exacerbate a spinal or neck condition.


I Sing the Body electric;

The armies of those I love engirth me, and I engirth them;

They will not let me off till I go with them, respond to them,

And discorrupt them, and charge them full with the charge of the Soul.


The continual changes of the flex of the mouth, and around the eyes,

The skin, the sun-burnt shade, freckles, hair,

The curious sympathy one feels, when feeling with the hand the naked meat of the body,

The circling rivers, the breath, and breathing it in and out,

The beauty of the waist, and thence of the hips, and thence downward toward the knees,

The thin red jellies within you, or within me—the bones, and the marrow in the bones,

The exquisite realization of health;

O I say, these are not the parts and poems of the Body only, but of the Soul,

O I say now these are the Soul!

 -- from I Sing the Body Electric,
an 1855 poem from Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman.

Monday, February 7, 2011


Hi Ed,

These are just two pages of quotes you get when you Google your name, but they appear quite often in reading about you.

Yours truly,



The markets are the same now as they were five or ten years ago because they keep changing-just like they did then.

Short-Term Trading

The elements of good trading are cutting losses, cutting losses, and cutting losses.


Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose, so they win by losing money.

I think that if people look deeply enough into their trading patterns, they find that, on balance, including all their goals, they are really getting what they want, even though they may not understand it or want to admit it.

Market Trends

The trend is your friend except at the end where it bends.

Charles Faulkner tells a story about Seykota’s finely honed intuition when it comes to trading: I am reminded of an experience that Ed Seykota shared with a group. He said that when he looks at a market, that everyone else thinks has exhausted its up trend, that is often when he likes to get in. When I asked him how he made this determination, he said he just puts the chart on the other side of the room and if it looked like it was going up, then he would buy it… Of course this trade was seen through the eyes of someone with deep insight into the market behavior.

Predicting the Future

If you want to know everything about the market, go to the beach. Push and pull your hands with the waves. Some are bigger waves, some are smaller. But if you try to push the wave out when it’s coming in, it’ll never happen. The market is always right.


To avoid whipsaw losses, stop trading.

Here’s the essence of risk management: Risk no more than you can afford to lose, and also risk enough so that a win is meaningful. If there is no such amount, don’t play.

Pyramiding instructions appear on dollar bills. Add smaller and smaller amounts on the way up. Keep your eye open at the top.

Markets are fundamentally volatile. No way around it. Your problem is not in the math. There is no math to get you out of having to experience uncertainty.

It can be very expensive to try to convince the markets you are right.

System Trading

Systems don’t need to be changed. The trick is for a trader to develop a system with which he is compatible.

I don’t think traders can follow rules for very long unless they reflect their own trading style. Eventually, a breaking point is reached and the trader has to quit or change, or find a new set of rules he can follow. This seems to be part of the process of evolution and growth of a trader.


Our work is not so much to treat or to cure feelings, as to accept and celebrate them. This is a critical difference.

Fundamentalists figure things out and anticipate change. Trend followers join the trend of the moment. Fundamentalists try to solve their feelings. Trend followers join their feelings and observe them evolve and dis-solve. The feelings we accept and enjoy rarely interfere with trading. Trying to treat or cure feelings adds mass.

When a feeling dissolves, it ceases to be your enemy and begins to be one of your allies.

Technology and Uncertainty

Advanced technology for analyzing the markets is interesting, entertaining, distracting, and even counter-productive to coming to terms with emotional reactions to uncertainty and volatility.

By the way, if you want something certain about the markets, uncertainty itself almost certainly happens to be one of the most certain things about the markets.

Experience Feelings

Feelings naturally appear during trading. The feelings we don’t like seem to have roots deep in our unresolved issues. Somehow they get stuck and do not finish passing through, and can cloud the judgment and interfere with trading. The feelings we do like seem to pass through quickly without much trace.

I suggest getting to know your feelings, by experiencing them, expressing them, letting them pass through and finding out they are pretty much all good ones.

Jet engines work best when they are open at both ends.

Feeling Stuck

The feelings you don’t like don’t pass through. Feelings you do like pass through. To get feelings to flow through, and not interfere with your trading, learn to like them. Part of that comes from experience, part with identifying their positive intentions. For example, consider the feeling of being lonely and having others tell you are wrong. When the market is trending nicely, it’s a feeling traders might especially enjoy, even use as a signal to add to a position.

The feeling of everyone telling you that you are right, might actually be the scary one.


There is nothing quite like admitting you don’t know anything to make people think you know something.


In your recipe for success, don’t forget commitment – and a deep belief in the inevitability of your success.


Define your project and the right tool appears. Questions about the tools indicate uncertainty about the project.

Avoiding Pain

Embracing the moment, celebrating the pain, and finding the positive intention, tends to transform pain into wisdom. Trying to avoid the bad stuff only tends to institutionalize it, and miss it’s positive intention.

If running out of gas is a bad feeling, you might be tempted to put masking tape over your fuel gauge … and miss out on the positive intention of that information.

Trends are markets having aha moments.

What you believe is true for you.

In futures trading, the short and long positions define each other.

A fish at one with the water sees nothing between himself and his prey. A trader at one with his feelings feels nothing between himself and executing his method.

Traders and Surfers

It’s all about sticking to your plan and experiencing feelings as they arise. If you are unwilling to feel your feelings, the temptation is to avoid them by jumping off your system.

Traders and Surfers both have to deal with feelings of missing out on the small ones, until the big one comes along. They also have to deal with feelings of staying with the big one.

Feelings you Dislike

Feelings you dislike, grow stronger; the feelings you like disappear, leaving you wiser.

The turning point in the Process occurs when you become willing to feel a historically unpleasant feeling.

Positive Intention

You might consider the positive intention of anger – hint: the positive intention of thirst is to make sure you have enough water in your body.


Children seem open to feel whatever they feel. Their moods change from moment to moment as they keep experiencing their feelings. As we mature, we learn to contain our feelings.


Thinking about emotions, trying to control emotions, talking about emotions … are all different from experiencing emotions.


Lungs Lose Air about Half the Time.


The experience of fear varies from person to person. The positive intention of fear is risk control.

Fred(Your subconscious mind) finds ways to get the fearless to feel fear.

Hard Work

Hard Work does not Guarantee Profit and one man’s hard work might be another man’s recreation

Finding your calling

Finding your calling is a continuation of the process of unifying Fred(unconscious mind) and CM(conscious mind).

As we clear out our personal pains and dramas, our issues and feelings tend to turn outward, toward others, toward building community, being of service, locating and expressing our talents and gifts …

Things you Measure Tend to Improve.


Becoming a better trader and becoming a better person seem to go together.

The Most Direct Communications require no words. They require only a good receiver.

Most people are really pretty agreeable, until you try to change them.

Your Experience of Others may depend on the degree to which you support or resist their mission, as they see it.


The responsibility model, in which you intend a result and assume responsibility, seems to provide a better fit for real-life situations.

World Peace

We are all here on this planet, temporarily, sharing some room with each other. Some chop wood and some carry water.

How about we help each other a bit more, fight a bit less.


When you are willing to experience your mate just the way she is, she loses her power to control you and she becomes your ally.

Your judgment of her judgment empowers it.

Sticking with System

John (Bollinger) tells me audiences can sit for hours and listen to him describe his famous, and simple, equation. They cannot, however, stand to listen to advice about risk management or sticking with a system.

-- from

Ed Seykota – Quotes

* Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose, so they win by losing money.
* To avoid whipsaw losses, stop trading.
* Risk no more than you can afford to lose and also risk enough so that a win is meaningful.
* Trend following is an exercise in observing and responding to the ever-present moment of now.
* Fundamentalists and anticipators may have difficulties with risk control because a trade keeps looking ‘better’ the more it goes against them.
* Until you master the basic literature and spend some time with successful traders, you might consider confining your trading to the supermarket.
* I don’t predict a non-existent future.

ed-seykota-quotes-trend-following-trading-wisdom /

Thank you for the links.

Monday, February 7, 2011

Pain is Resistance

Dear Ed,

I read a story from a guy who survives an avalanche. He gets buried alive and cannot move, is in pain and despair. But as he stops fighting the unavoidable death, his suffering turns into a placid, blissful experience. Friends rescue him and he is able to share it in a book.

I read from a different source that the same happens to people who drown, when they stop fighting.


Since I plan to make a business out of my [counseling] technique, I want to know if it really helps people and look for some facts to support my advertising. For some days I struggle with the concept of "objective reality" and "truth".

On Sunday, February 6, 2011 ("Fundamental Questions"), FAQ discusses "How does one know what is true?"... Thanks for your thoughts.

I sustain that reality is consensual. Christians are convinced of the existence of a Kingdom of Heaven. Astronauts may have a different opinion.


During a hot seat I realize that to accept my feelings is just a decision. When I do it, I know how to act, things are smooth and easy. When I do not, friction appears.

Sometimes I feel that this path is obscure and winding. I call you when I feel lost. Thank you for your support.


Typo: On Sunday, February 6, 2011 You write "If we wish to do something that effects them, we ask them if they are willing before we proceed." I think that it is "affects".
Thank you for sharing your process - and for the catch.
Monday, February 7, 2011

Trading as Medication for Feelings


I notice how much I really enjoy being a part of the tribe as we are drumming. Everyone checks in and then shares what has transpired since the previous tribe meeting. Everyone shares some feelings about bullying or being bullied. I share that I notice I play the role of victim many times in regards to trading. I notice feelings of fear related to something being taken away.

I recall a process from the previous TT from a time in my childhood when my dog dies…I am in 3rd grade. I remember feeling lost most of the time after this incident…something hurting inside but not knowing how to release the pain and sadness. Sometime in the year after my dog dying I and a grade school friend steal some cigars from a small store. I have no reason to steal. I am not sure but I feel this relates to my dog dying somehow…that taking something might replace what is lost.

In retrospect, my relationship to this little dog is masking sadness and loss prior to the dog dying. I am using the dog as a source of unconditional love because there is none or very little where I am at. I recall from my earliest memories that my father violates my personal space and property. In his eyes he is the master of the home and all property, which in his mind, includes his wife and children as his property and he has ultimate power and control regarding everything.

Any gift that I am given is really not mine…it is his. I know this because if I displease him or break his rules in some way then he will come and take anything he wishes. He uses the threat of taking my property as a means of control. This is the ultimate bully story…a super dominant, over controlling abusive father. In my mind and in much of my feelings it does not appear to the world in this light.

I am taught from an early age to honor my parents and essentially if I am not pleasing to them in some way or I do not follow their every command then it is my fault. A lot of guilt is projected if I disappoint them. What is the feeling of having so called “personal property” that at any time can be jerked away. I imagine it to be much like the feeling of being a girl and having your father molest you whenever he desires.

Perhaps it is not as physically violating but perhaps it is psychologically similar. It becomes my intention to repeat this pattern throughout my life. I associate this feeling with the “love” I receive from my father…this is the only “love” I know as a child and I desperately want to please my parents and to finally receive unconditional love. The feeling of “love” now in trading is studying the market and waiting to take a position that allows me to define a very tight risk.

I like to take a significant position…something meaningful. I get in the position, set my stop and then after the trade has advanced maybe 10-20% of its potential and there is a mild pullback I get out and then watch as the market moves away in great strides.

Another version is to wait for the right position then to get in, set a stop and get so anxious about getting stopped out that I impulsively get out…only to watch as the market blasts off like a rocket to the moon.

In both situations I recreate the situation, the feeling of having something taken away or losing something. I get to feel the “love” in all of its glory…that empty feeling when you have a great position, great stop and then its ripped away…getting to feel all the regret and agony, beating myself up, blaming myself as the market shoots to the moon or is crashing towards the earth.

This cycle is an addiction. It is every bit the same addiction as a girl who is raped by her father and becomes a prostitute…in some sense she is trying to wanting her fathers love. It seems so simple to create a trailing stop and follow the exit just like the entry…but then, I would not be “loved” In my mind this pattern repeats throughout life.

Everything is controlled…even to the point that all my phone conversations were monitored. My father had a friend who worked for SW Bell who knew how to tap the phone line. My father has a switch installed in his office so he can pick up and listen without detection or he can throw the switch and cut the conversation off if it is bedtime. If he did not like who I am talking to then throw the switch.

I am not one to give up so I continue to ride this dead horse over the course of my entire adult life...working for the family business. I want this “love” so desperately that there is no end to the abuse I am willing to experience. In reality it is insanity…doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result, expecting real love.

A tribe member describes a trading pattern that I identify with. He explains that he gets into a position, a good position then he feels anxious and indecisive and goes through a process of buy/sell until some type of emotional climax at which point he gets out of everything. He then gets to watch the market advance/decline and he has exited a good trade.

Ed tests for willingness and the tribe is willing to support him and agrees that he is willing to go through the process. He gets into a form that resembles anger at selling out and exiting early…he pounds his fist on his leg while screaming “damn it”. The form is frustration and anger as I view it.

As he brings the form to term he describes a situation where he and his father are in line to get fireworks at a festival. A man behind him begins pushing him harder and harder at which point he turns and hits the man several times. His father turns and apologizes to the man trying to just make peace. He does not defend his son after it is disclosed the man is pushing him repeatedly.

Ed sets up a role play for this situation and I volunteer to play the father. We do the drama first with a surrogate who recreates the scene. When we do the role play the first few times I turn and am ambivalent towards my son. I appease the man behind my son with an apology and I ignore the abuse to my son.

I implore him to ignore the abuse and be quiet and stay in line. I notice my son in some way feels my lack of support and protection. We replay the drama and I immediately share my feelings with the man behind my son. I feel anger that anyone would place their hands on my child. I am willing to defend and protect him if it comes to that.

I share these feelings with the man behind my son and he shares his feelings of not wanting to miss out on the fireworks. My son shares his feelings with me about being pushed down by the man behind and not wanting to miss out on the fireworks. My son shares his feelings with the man behind. In the middle of this drama the tribe member has some other feelings that come up. The form appears to me to be grief or related to sadness. It is integrated into the drama we are doing.

My gut feeling is that much of the deepest core feelings are like a splinter buried deep inside. Perhaps the infection is surrounding the wound and it is hot all around. I feel a need to get at the splinter…if that is possible. Sometimes I think we open up a layer of scar tissue over the actual wound but are not able to get to the root of things.

Perhaps a lot depends on how hot a wound is also…so it presents itself outright in the form initially. The tribe member feels that the process is beneficial. Role players are dismissed from their roles and then we check out.

In the following days I recall a situation when I am 7-8. I am at a friends house. His father is very, very strict. My friend has a younger sister and we are playing and she gets upset at us and me in particular for throwing some type of green Styrofoam on her. I am told I need to go and speak with her father. I remember him grabbing me by the front of the shirt, picking me up off the ground and threatening me with harm if I ever did anything to harm his daughter. I never felt comfortable around any of them again.
Thank you for sharing your process and for illustrating how childhood trauma can color our trading methods.

When You Scold a Child
you also teach a child

how to scold.

Monday, February 7, 2011

Trading Internship / Mentorship

Hello Mr. Seykota,

After reading more about trend following, I realized this is what I have wanted to learn all along. When I started learning about trading, I used to have the belief that the strategies needed to be simple. Even now I still have that belief.

What went wrong was that I did not have someone who was successful to mentor me and fix my thinking. Some people I associated with directed me towards resources that talked about complicated strategies and fundamentals. I still cannot grasp all of that. This is why I am seeking you for help.

I need to be able to apply the simple sayings of " ride profits, cut losses" and " the trend is your friend". Something needs to clue me in that now might be the time to exit or now might be the time to enter.

For example, if the stock GE is in an uptrend, you buy. What will give me a clue to buy. Eventually, the market might reverse and be in a downtrend or range. What will tell me that now is the time to short?

I hope this paints a clearer picture for you. Also, I will be more than happy to drive to you in order to better myself.
You might consider beginning by working through the examples on the Trading Systems Project (TSP) pages, by following the resources link, above.
Monday, February 7, 2011

Receiving the Essentials Card
Living the Intimacy Model

Dear Ed,

My essentials card and my round Tuits have arrived!

Thank you so much, I feel great excitement as I open the envelopes. I marvel at the essentials card. It is better than I expect. I also receive some change.

I look at the USD$2 note in wonder. I have never seen one before.

I am touched by your thoughtfulness in providing change. I know it's silly but it strikes me that you are real person, not just an untouchable name in some history books but a famous person on the other side of this email and address that is interacting with me in the here and now. Wow!

I consider what an enormous commitment you undertake to set up the trading tribe website, run tribe meeting, workshops and answer FAQ's and that you do provide all these teachings and facilities for personal improvement free of charge. You dedicate a substantial effort to selflessly helping others to help themselves.

Most of all I am awed by your intimacy model, so simple yet so powerful.

It strikes me that your intimacy model is a really great and wonderful contribution to humanity. I consider it as valuable a contribution to the world as the invention of the wheel is.

As a child, when I lay in bed at night wondering about the day's events, I wondered if I could have changed the outcomes of certain events by acting or saying things differently.

I was never able to back-test this as none of the situations ever re-occur in exactly the same way again.

Your intimacy model has answered this childhood question.

I should always behave by sharing my feelings and receiving the feelings of others! amazing.

I try to implement the intimacy model, everyday it gets a little easier. I see the control model everywhere including in my life but I want so much to master living intimately with those in my life.

I learn so much by reading FAQ's. Thank you Ed for all of the facilities you provide, for your teachings, for sharing your knowledge, for your dedication, care, commitment and for your honesty. Thank you to the contributors for sharing the hot seat experiences in such vivid detail.

Kind Regards
You are welcome.

Thank you for your support and encouragement.
Sunday, February 6, 2011

Fundamental Questions


1. Why does it hurt to love?

2. How does one know what is true?
Thank you for posing these simple and deep questions.

1. In the intimacy-centric model, we hold love as a verb; to love someone this way, is to celebrate them the way they are, to respect their sovereignty and to promote their interests as they see them.  If we wish to do something that involves them, we ask them if they are willing before we proceed.

In the control-centric model, people hold love as a noun, something they wish to get or feel - or as a template for how they want the other person to behave - or as a license to fix him.

Control-centric definitions of love generally involve the expectation of getting something in return and may incur painful experiences for all parties.

“Love possesses not
nor will it be possessed,
for love is sufficient unto love.”

“Love has no other desire
but to fulfill itself.
To melt and be like a running brook
that sings its melody to the night.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart
and give thanks for another day of loving.”

“Hallow the body as a temple
to comeliness and sanctify
the heart as a sacrifice to love; love recompenses the adorers. ”

“If you love somebody, let them go,
for if they return,
they were always yours.
And if they don’t, they never were.”

“It is wrong to think
that love comes from long companionship
and persevering courtship.
Love is the offspring of spiritual affinity
and unless that affinity is created
in a moment,
it will not be created for years
or even generations.”

“Life without love
is like a tree without blossoms or fruit.”

“Love and doubt
have never been on speaking terms.”

“Love one another,
but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea
between the shores of your souls.”

“Every man loves two women;
the one is the creation of his imagination
and the other is not yet born.”

“Love is trembling happiness.”

2. In TTP we hold that feelings are true and that feeling-truth understands the intimacy-centric relationship model. 

Objective truth generally depends on context, is subject to interpretation and useful in the control-centric relationship model.
Saturday, February 5, 2011

Wants a Mentor

Hello Mr. Seykota,

No problem sir. I think a little back story might help.

About 7 years ago, when i was in the 10th grade, my dad introduced me to forex market. I read everything I could about technical indicators, fundamentals, chart patterns, COT reports, Elliot waves, etc.

The problem came in when I tried to come up with a method on my own. I just could not seem to figure out when to get into the market and when to exit.

I need to be sure that when I enter the trade, there will be a high probability of success, but it always feels like I am guessing and that is no good.

I have been paper trading since I have not been able to produce consistent results. I tried contacting other well renowned traders such as yourself for help, but I never got back a single response. I have even tried the home study courses as well without any luck.

I would like to learn how to read the markets clearly and how to trade the trend. How do I know when is a relatively ideal time to enter? How do I know it is time to get out of the trade? I am not looking to pick tops or bottoms at all. I am willing to do whatever is necessary to achieve this goal. If I need to learn programing, accounting, etc., I will do it. Maybe my approach has been completely wrong this entire time.

Since you are an amazing trend trader, I thought it would be a good idea to learn from you.

I hope that answered your question,
The probability of an individual trade working out is either 100% or 0% depending on how it actually works.

Your requirement, that you can achieve certainty about the outcome in advance requires that you read the non-existing future.

You might consider taking your feelings about <wanting certainty> to Tribe.

Moment of Certainty

Certainty Understands

the drama
around stubbornness and bigotry.

One Certainty:

The search for certainty
always ends successfully.
 Saturday, February 5, 2011

Wants a Mentor

Hello Mr. Seykota,

I was wondering if you offered any internship or mentorship in trading. I have been trying to trade for the past 7 years, but have had no success. My masters program at University of Illinois does not begin until middle of May of this year. I was wondering if I could take this opportunity to learn from you. I am willing to travel to your location and will do it for free.

I wonder if you can give me an idea about what you would like to learn - and if you have any skills (such as accounting, programming, etc.)
that might come in handy).
 Saturday, February 5, 2011

Man Holds Breath for 17 Minutes

Hi Ed,

Here's the link to David Blaine's speech about holding his breath that I mention to you. I think you might enjoy it.
Thank you for the link.
Saturday, February 5, 2011

FAQ Report- TT Session #2

Dear Ed,

Thanks for holding another great Tribe meeting, and for your support and insight. I enter the meeting with a desire to get to know my other tribe members better and to learn from other people’s processes. I don’t feel hot, nor do I feel like taking the hot seat, coming into the meeting.

Ironically, I turn out to be one of the first candidates to work, as you identify my issue with making decisions. This is an AHA for me. I recall different times in my life where I’m incessantly preoccupied with making a decision rather than achieving goals. It’s as if I’m scared of success. However, after much further thought, I believe that it’s not the actual success that I have an issue with. Rather, it’s the potential loss of what I’m trying to achieve that scares me. I recall the pain of losing as a child in various situations.

Although I don’t end up taking the hot seat, I learn a lot about myself, and have an entry point for important work.

I am also able to connect with my tribe members on a more personal level. Learning about their families and interests is really enjoyable. I leave Austin with some important insights and stronger relationships with my fellow Tribe members.
Thank you for sharing your process.
Friday, February 4, 2011 8:31 AM

Almost Done

Hi Ed,

thinking of you and sharing great tribe stories. My book is almost done and I'll send you a copy to read.
Wednesday, February 2, 2011

Wants the Good Books

Good Morning Mr. Seykota,

i m a young Italian investor. probably i m not smarter than a lot of traders out there, but i m sure that i have a characteristic that a lot of them don't have: i love the market and i love study them!

i m reading a lot about trading and i found your interviews.
i think that if i want succeed, i have to learn from great people.

i know that you learned a lot from Donchain 's letter. do you know where can i find them? i m really curious to read his opinions.

if you should suggest some books to a young investor, which books do you think can influence him to improve his trades?

thank you in advance for your reply
See the Favorite Books link on the Resources page.
Wednesday, February 2, 2011

Mastering the Basic Literature


I just read this quote of yours, "Until you master the basic literature and spend some time with successful traders, you might consider confining your trading to the supermarket." Which leaves me with three questions that I feel I need to know the answers to.

1. What is the basic literature you speak of and where can I acquire it?

2. What key principles did they instill or help to verify within your own core belief system?

3. How does one go about being mentored by yourself?

Thank you very much for your time.
1. You might consider visiting the Favorite Books link on the Resources page.

2. See the Essentials Cord on the Resources page, above.

3. You might consider signing up for a Workshop, joining a Tribe and reading through these FAQ pages.
Tuesday, February 1, 2011

From Control to Intimacy

Hi Ed,

This is my report for the second Austin tribe meeting.

We start the meeting with a check in. I report that I am practicing the intimacy model. I notice that I can choose between the control and the intimacy model. I prefer the later as I am learning to connect with people and to establish rapport.

After check in, we talk about some differences between the control and intimacy model. I notice that sometimes I am just turning around the situations. For example, I recall an example with my nephew who is 9 years old. I am in a room working with a computer. My nephew comes in (the door is open), stays for a few minutes, and when he leaves, he turns off the lights. I am still in the room. He does the same thing a few times.

I can choose the control model and threaten him. In this example, I tell my nephew that it is ok to turn off the lights and that I actually like it when the room is dark. Of course, my nephew stops turning the lights off. However, I am still using the control model. I am just turning around the situation.

If I go for the intimacy model, my option is to establish rapport with my nephew and share feelings. We continue the session talking about the futility of trying to fix people. I notice how we all share similar issues. I recall times in my life when I try to fix people. Tribe leader suggests that we can not fix people but instead we can establish rapport and share feelings.

We also talk about how dramas have payoffs. We can create dramas to keep us busy and avoid doing things. Finally, we talk about right livelihood. At this point, I wonder if I might be avoiding success to be at my father’s level. I recall talking to him over the phone a few days after the first tribe meeting. I tell him that I plan to travel to Austin every 2 weeks to participate in the tribe. He does not know much about TTP or what we do in a tribe. I recall explaining to him that the tribe is a personal growth support group. However, on this conversation, I feel that he tries to discourage me to continue attending the tribe. I tell him that it is important for me to participate in the tribe.

After the break, a tribe member takes the hot seat. He shares his experience about buying and selling a stock several times after reading some hot news. He thinks he is missing out the move. He also breaks his trading rules.

Hot seat speaks fast. Process Manager (PM) suggests him to speak very, very slow and to notice the feelings. Hot seat starts to develop forms. The tribe encourages him to crank it up the forms. After freezing the forms, hot seat recalls an event. He waits in line with many people to buy some firecrackers at a store.

Hot seat is with his father. Hot seat is eager to get one of those firecrackers. Suddenly, an adult person pushes hot seat out of the line. Hot seat first reaction is to punch the adult. We role play the event. On the first role play, a tribe member takes hot seat role. Hot seat just observes. On the next role plays, hot seat takes his original position. Hot seat practices the intimacy model. Hot seat expresses his feelings to the person who pushes him. Hot seat´s father also expresses his feelings.

I notice how tension starts to dissipate when people start to share feelings.

We close the meeting reviewing our snapshots. I give and receive feedback. I change my snapshot from the first meeting. I notice that I feel pressure and fear when I think about my new snapshot. I decide to keep my new snapshot and deal with the feelings.

A few days after the meeting, I have a conversation with my sister. I notice how she struggle with her kids (to stop fights, make them do things, etc.). I tell her that I am learning about the intimacy model. I ask her if she wants to learn more about it.

She shows interest. I give her a brief explanation. I keep in mind that I do not plan to fix my sister. I do not know if she plans to practice the intimacy model or not. I just feel that I want to share what I am learning in the tribe.

Thanks tribe for the support. I also want to thank you Ed for your hospitality.
Thank you for sharing your process.
Tuesday, February 1, 2011

The Essentials Card

Hi Ed,

I received The Essentials card today. I will consult it often.

Thank you
Tuesday, February 1, 2011 2:06 PM

Intentions = Results - Tennis Video

Dear Ed,

I enjoy watching this clip and am reminded of intentions equaling results.

Warm regards,
Thank you for the clip.
 Tuesday, February 1, 2011

Austin Trading Tribe Meeting Report -
On Short-Term Trading

Tribe meeting begins with reporting on our progress and issues since the last meeting. We take turns and then discuss the control-centric and intimacy-centric models in great detail with current examples in our lives. I report on applying the intimacy-centric model “potty training my son” only to find out that it has my own controlling twist to it.

Ed is patient and explains many things in great detail. One of the members points out “Gosh this is not Portuguese, it is sharing feelings and we still are unable to do it.” I think he is right, this is so tough-easy.

After the discussion, we move to the Tribe work. Ed begins with the testing of hotness and willingness of members to work. One member describes issues with making decisions. A couple of other members tell Ed that they also would like to work on this issue. Another member says that he has no problem making decisions; he would rather work on his impulsive trading.

Ed asks him to describe the problem. The Tribe member speaks very fast and Ed tells him couple of times that he doesn’t understand what he says. The Tribe member describes a recent trade in [Stock]. Ed asks him about the trade in great detail. He also asks him if he can speak slow, very slow.

As he describes the trades very slowly, a few things become obvious. First it seems that he also has a problem with decision making. He doesn’t want to miss the trade so he breaks his own rules and gets in before the market opens. Then when the market opens he wonders if he had done the right thing as the price falls below his buying average.

Tribe member reports on every price level until the price falls really down – he just can’t remember the price anymore - he blanks out. The price ... fluctuates around several of his entry points all day, not really going up, nor down. Tribe member really doesn’t seem to know what to do with that position. He seems to be stuck in a place that I, as a trader, also know well.

It starts with; “Wow this pattern looks soooooo good. If I do not act fast it will go away! I must buy it at once, or it will go away” – making the feeling of fear of missing out go away is the trade motivator. Once in trade the situation changes. Trader is relieved that he does not have to feel the feeling of missing out anymore.

Here Mr. Market changes the game for the trader. Instead of going up, the price goes down or just hovers on breakeven level. Trader starts to fear the loss the same way he fears that the trade might have gotten away from him just few minutes ago – he questions his decisions and is considering all kinds of things (taking the stop out that it doesn’t get hit, adding to the position on the way down to make a better average price or as in this case, the position is called “long term position” and the trader goes and day trades around it.)

Ed compiles all the information about the situation and then does some additional checking for willingness to work. He asks the hot seat to really get into the feeling of missing out. Hot seat rocks back and forth and hits his leg with a fist. He is scrunching his face and makes some noises. Ed asks him to freeze the form and find the earliest recollection of this feeling.

Hot seat is about seven years old with his dad waiting in a line before the market open to buy some firecrackers. The line is big, there are people everywhere pushing each other. Hot seat is being pushed by this guy behind him until he gets so angry that he punches him in the leg. The guy gets [angry] and pushes him even more. Hot set punches him again. His dad doesn’t seem to know all about this. The pusher complains to Hot seats dad about Hot seat hitting him. His dad scolds him, apologizes to the pusher and Hot seat doesn’t say anything – he shuts down.

We role play the situation several times and we practice sending and receiving feelings. I role-play the pusher. Ed coaches all the role plays. Hot seat is the one who is in control of the resources of sending and receiving. The rest of us are at his mercy. If Hot seat is willing to send his feelings and receive others feelings, he changes the “feel” of the situation for all the participants dramatically. I notice in the last round of role play:

I push in a line as I fear that there is not going to be enough merchandise for everybody and the kid in front of me (Hot seat) is leaving too big of a space for other people to get ahead of me – fear of missing out)

After we exchange the punches and pushes, Hot seat asks me for willingness to listen to him and sends feelings of pain, anger, frustration. I seem to not care much but it definitely stops my action. Once he sends these feelings to his father, he seems to be more willing to acknowledge him.

When his father shares his feelings of not liking somebody pushing or hurting his son with me, I can relate to him more than I could to his son. He then asks me for my feelings and I share the feelings of fear of missing out and frustration. He thanks me for telling him and lets me know that he is going to support me by keeping the line tight so nobody can get ahead of me. Even as a pusher and agitator of the whole situation, when I feel truly acknowledged by people who hurt, I feel a sense of relief and support. Drama disappears.

Thank you everybody for being part of this wonderful group and thank you, Ed, for your kind guidance.

Thank you for sharing your process.

I do not know of any studies that show someone profitable following a short-term system - or making money by day-trading.
Tuesday, February 1, 2011

Dealing with Frustration

Hi Ed,

Wanted to share a observation from the last tribe meeting. When [Name] interrupted your talking right at a pause I found it interesting how you shared your feelings about being frustrated and then celebrated him exactly the way he is.

Typically if someone frustrates me I want them to feel frustrated so they know how I feel. I then go through great pains to find a way to frustrate the person. I realized I could simplify the process by just using words to make them know what I feel.

I like this method much better.

Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your process.