The Trading Tribe
(c) Ed Seykota 2003-2011 - Write for permission to reprint.
Ed Seykota's FAQ
Readers Say Ed Says
Monday, January 31, 2011


Hi Ed,

First of all, just want to say that I love your site, thank you for shearing your insight's and knowledge.

I have two questions:

1. how do you handle the gap / dissonance that happen sometimes between your trading system signals and your personal view / beliefs about the market ?

2. When does your new book coming out ?
When you commit to trend trading, you forsake your beliefs about the market.

You might consider taking your feelings about <commitment> to Tribe.

My book might appear sometime around July, 2011.
 Monday, January 31, 2011

Next Workshop Dates Please


Have you fixed up the dates for your next seminar? The website has Dec3-5 as the last one. Anything planned for Feb/March 2011? Thanks.
I host Workshops in response to demand.  You can watch these pages for announcements.
Monday, January 31, 2011

Tribe Report - Escorts and Other Medications

This past meeting I learned a lot about the technology, and in return I learned a lot about myself. I did not take a hot seat but [Name's] hot seat really made a huge impact. I could relate to how he broke his rules and justifying it to himself.

By the end of the meeting I realized I had commitment issues, which I medicated myself with escorts. But that ended once I met my second wife. It was love at first site with Wife2, but I did everything in my power to sabotage the relationship. My wife was not going to play my games I could see that, and I could see she cared a great deal for me.

The escorts were quickly replaced with a new medication. I see a requiring pattern of switching my medicines. Monday morning I awoke from a nights sleep and had dreams of the issues. I woke up at 3:30 with an aha moment. I had a lot of issues with a lot of people. And it's typical suspects, Mom and Dad but there's more . It was Coaches and teammates. I would like to take the hot seat next Tribe. As I think about this my palms get clammy.

Special thanks to Ed for his teachings and the rest of tribe for your help. I look forward for to the next meeting.
Thank you for sharing your process.

An Escort Can Provide

an escape from having to be intimate.

A Commitment Can Provide

an escape from a life without intimacy.
Sunday, January 30, 2011

Tribe Meeting - Distractions


We have our second tribe meeting. It is nice to see we all had the intention to be at the meeting on time. I again have the intention for everyone to be there before 5 p.m.

One member goes on the hot seat and works on being impulsive in his trading and in life. It is fascinating to work with people in this manner. I am still amazed how a few events in our past can have such impacts on everything we do in life.

I kept thinking to myself during the meeting that I wish I had paper and pen to take notes as I knew with the intensity in the room I would not be able to remember much of the great things that went on in the meeting.

I did have an aha moment in this meeting when it became clear to me that an incident where someone caused me significant damage to my property was as much my fault because I wasn’t understanding this persons feelings and I certainly don’t have an intimacy-centric relationship with this person.

After the meeting had adjourned, we were all visiting with each other and Ed visited with me because he was concerned that I have this issue under control so that it doesn’t happen to me again. Thank you Ed, that means so much to me.

In the information Ed gave about his workshop in early December, he wrote, “Participants come to realize that their daily activities are primarily ritualistic, dramatic, medicinal and addictive in nature and otherwise contribute little toward right-livelihood.“

I was always interested in how that would come into the workshop. Ed touched on it some in the workshop but at this meeting it became clearer to me. So much of our time is spent doing things so that we don’t do the things we say we want to do.

Do we cause drama in one part of our lives so we don’t have to focus on another? I now believe that is true. How few of us make goals with the determination to meet them? How many of these goals are not quantifiable but only qualitative which allows us an out from accomplishing these goals. How many of us that are reading FAQ really spend time on their goals and form them in a way so they are our focus and are committed to accomplishing? So yes, I do have many daily activities that we use to distract me from living in right-livelihood.

What a great group to be a part of.
Thank you for sharing your process.

We Can Create Distractions
for anything we don't want to do.

Sunday, January 30, 2011

Wants to Translate to Russian


I want to read your The Trading Tribe Book. How can I read it, if I'm locate in Russia? And last question... May I translate it and officiall publish in Russia? We can have big deal. Thank you
You may order The Trading Tribe at the resources link above.

I wonder how I might verify the accuracy of your translation.
Sunday, January 30, 2011

Interruptions & Rejections

Dear Ed and Austin Tribe:

In conversation with another tribe member over dinner he comments on how simple the principles of the intimacy model are; test for willingness, share my feelings, ask them to share their feelings.

Yet, in role plays we often are blah, blah, blah and needing Ed to feed us words like an actor that doesn’t know his lines. This seems a testament to how real the role plays are. Certainly real enough to tease out the current resource at an unconscious level that implementing the intimacy model feels like trying to find a set of keys in a totally dark room, at least initially.

It also seems to testify to the wide gap between academic and actual practical application of principles, very much like in trading. I recall from a Livermore book he talks about the difference between being able to shoot a gun straight vs. being able to shoot straight when your also being shot at. It’s the same deal here.

During the early part of the meeting a tribe member interrupts Ed. Ed shares his feelings. “I feel like I’m saying something and lose it with your interruption. Here’s what I’m used to, one person speaks, then another person, one person at a time.”

Ed then works on a rapport with the interrupter and compliments him with how well he is able to interrupt on the smallest of pauses between Ed’s words. These aren’t exact quotes and this is not a very good retelling of the story … this an issue of mine and I go partially unconscious through it. In retrospect I wish I ask Ed and the interrupter to re-run their scenario. Though it does not start out as a role play, it’s happening in real time and Ed makes a teachable moment from it.

When I experience interruption I feel anger and irritation and express that in control model method … aiming to control someone for interrupting me.

When I return home from the meeting my wife gives me an opportunity to apply the intimacy model. My wife tells me how tired she is, she’s just in a very low energy space.

This disappointments me but it’s late and the night winds down quickly. The next morning she’s in the same space and I feel stronger disappointment and a touch of rejection.

I’m home, I want a warm greeting and excitement to see me, as I am to see her. In the moment I’m conscious of a choice I can make to take these signals as indicating how tired she actually is. But I also feel disappointment, and like okay, maybe I’ll try you later and you can have another chance but I’ll take some space away from you for now. Perhaps like pouting.

The anger I feel is scary to let go, how will I protect myself in the future? Where’s the standard? Why is it okay to just be half-assed about your partner? It’s tough to build the rapport when I’m upset. And that is why I need to do it. I think the insight I get here is that it’s difficult for me to apply the intimacy model in situations that trigger my knots.

I thank Ed and my fellow Austin Tribe members for the healing field of acknowledgment they provide.

I feel very motivated and more aware of things that I go unconscious on and very motivated to experience these feelings and clear the blockages. Application of the intimacy model comes off as one cool cat way of doing things.

Thank you for sharing your process.

In TTP we hold that intentions = results.

You might consider your payoff in eliciting rejection.

Different Strokes ...

For Different Folks.

Saturday, January 29, 2011

Naked Trading

Hi Ed,

1. I have read your book. Of course, I have to be in the hot seat. Finally, I understand what you talking in your book. But it is difficult for me to “open” myself to people whom I don’t know close enough.

Even to my wife I cannot tell some my thinks, even I love her much. It is Asian culture. Field of acknowledgment for me is like if I go to doctor and take out all my clothes completely.

But what I understand after reading your book, that if I have “a bad sickness “, I have to take out all my “clothes”. After that I will have my willingness to talk openly about my k-nots. I have them a lot. The second things, I have to learn how to use TTP forms. And them I have a third problem. The problem is that a locale TTP leader did not answer to my emails, after I had a problem with him many years ago. I cannot open my TTP, a) I cannot be a leader, b) no people. So, I just can “write letters “ to your internet side.

2. Last year I used your approach Simple Exponential Moving Average (EMA), for very small amount real trading money. Got 15% of additional money for the year. Without optimized. When I start doing optimization (3 parameters, Slow, Fast and ATR) , I understand, what you wrote in your side “You might also notice that you make the most money with a slow system with a high heat and low ATR multiplier, although this configuration also delivers very large drawdowns (DD).” This is that large revenue will be with large losses, a’la Markowitz approach?!. So, I decided if I go with EMA by very large DD, will go by small amount of many, but many different stocks. That is I can have large revenue, but large DD will not have for this amount. What you think?

3. I need a hot seat, to be on my trade even I will have a large DD. I am not even to mention haw many other things I need for hot seat!!!!

Thanks for you still teaching me and answer for my emails,
Thank you for sharing your process.

You might consider taking your feelings about <being naked> and <trading> to Tribe.

Without Good Risk Management

you can lose your shirt.

Saturday, January 29, 2011

Austin Tribe Report -
From Isolation to Integration

Hi Ed -

I kept having dreams and started having better access to my emotional states last night.

On the surface I have created a layer that results in:
Fast talking, loud voice, dominating decisive action,
being smarter than everyone else, being the opposite
of the majority.

Underlying this are emotions of sadness, being uncomfortable, being the odd man out, being isolated and lonely, being unable to relate to others, feeling pain in my stomach and solar plexus area.

The disconnect between these two and avoidance of the painfulness of the emotions results in whipsaw action.

At this time, I am allowing myself to feel and experience whatever is going on.

Thank you for creating a process to expose myself to myself.
Thank you for sharing your process.

Friday, January 28, 2011

Austin Tribe Meeting Report -
From Drama to System

Dear Ed:

Thank you for the work you are doing. I am still processing the tribe experience and hope to provide a more detailed report the next meeting. I did buy the remaining half of the [Stock] position at 210 - and it closed today around 217. In retrospect, I could have executed this trade with proper risk controls and no drama and wasted energy.

I now have an updated trading plan/vision:

Trade only when:

1) The fundamental story and/or supply/demand makes sense and provide a clear trade bias
2) Well defined high quality patterns are present on weekly, daily and/or 30 min charts
3) Proper pre-defined entry points and stops have been written down and alerts have been set.
Thank you for sharing your process.

Friday, January 28, 2011

Workshop Report

Dear Workshop members,

Today, I try using the intimacy model as often as I can muster.

I am successful about ½ the time.

The other time I fall back into habits and into reactions to others.

I try to defend my feelings when they “confront” me with their difficulties in freely sharing and owning their feelings.

I try to get my office partners to try a role play session.

This involves their insistence to fire an employee.

They realize my intention and do not want to play.

They also are on to me and acknowledge I am on the right track and are starting to listen more and more.

I talk to a Fund of Funds manager today.

He apologizes for not getting to the review of the information I sent him.

I thank him for expressing his displeasure, and I thank him for being genuinely interested.

I tell him I feel he is interested in really doing his homework, where many other managers are “out-to-lunch”.

He expresses appreciation.

I know that our returns and volatility ratio is one of the best in the industry.

I feel it is a short matter of time before we are business partners.

I cross paths with a new friend at the coffee shop. She seems very genuine.

I like her fashion in clothes. I notice I dress as nice as I can to share my sense of fashion with her.

We agree to meet next week and sit down and talk.

She seem to be a woman really in touch.

I look forward to practicing the intimacy model wherever I can.

More than this, I wish to excel at it.

I thank you for your leading, and I thank the workshop participants for going at it together.
Thank you for sharing your process.

 Friday, January 28, 2011

California Residents Hit With Government Ban
On Paying By Cash


On the theme of lack of freedoms in this ...

The government seems to be promoting the idea that those who pay with cash are threats to national security.
As our society proceeds down the control-centric path, these kinds of issues become more and more frequent.  In intimacy-centric relating, they rarely arise.
Thursday, January 27, 2011

Can't Find the Book

Hey Ed,

I just discovered your site and spent hours reading the FAQ's. Great site!

I couldn't get the page for your book, or for PDF for the City group, if it's still active.

As well as great tips for trading and life, I really love the humor, illustrations and some amusing photos. Fancy that - pinup X-Rays!

All the best!
Thank you for your encouragement and feedback.

I am currently re-working the internal link system to facilitate finding things.
Wednesday, January 26, 2011

8-Year Old Banjoist - Video


Here is 8-year old Jonny Mizzone practicing "Flint Hill Special" by Earl Scruggs.

Nice pickin'...
Thank you for the clip.

I wonder if I can play that well when I get to be 8 years old.
Wednesday, January 26, 2011



When is the next seminar?


I schedule Workshops in response to demand.  Watch this site for announcements.
Tuesday, January 25, 2011

Identity Leak

Hi Ed

On Jan 4, 2011 Link Error, the writer of comment was
identified by name. I know this is not your usual policy.

Best wishes to you.
Thank you for the catch.
Tuesday, January 25, 2011

Wants a Scholarship

Hi Ed,

I’m interested learning the trend-following methodology that you follow in order to trade markets successfully. Most of my understanding of this has come from reading Michael Covel’s books Trend Following and The Complete Turtle Trader in addition to Jack Schwager's Market Wizards and I am questioning weather doing a finance or economics degree is a good use of time & money if my ultimate goal is trading using trend-following.

I have however, been accepted into an Advanced Diploma in Accounting (acceptance letter attached) here in [City] and will later be able to turn this into a Bachelors Degree in Commerce (Accounting major) but am wondering if you would be able to aid me with meeting the cost of my education or direct me to anyone you know who would be able to help me with this.

My parents are not able to meet the cost of my education due to financial difficulties but I would like to study and remain in [Countries] since I think this provides me the best opportunity to learn and be involved with trading at a substantial level as opposed to in my home country.

Admittedly I am of the persuasion that a large majority of learning in trading will come from experience but am wondering if you would be able to aid me in obtaining this qualification on the way to becoming a trader.

With your natural gift for asking others to support you, you might consider abandoning trading and getting into government.
Monday, January 24, 2011

The Limits of Intentions

Hello Ed,

I want to share two different experiences that have made me think about intentions = results and the limits of the intimacy centric model for problem solving.

I have a friend who is a gambler in a family of gamblers, this gambling family doesn't seem to be aware of the incredible amount of money the spend with this "hobby".

The thing that by any account my friend is considered a "the lucky one", he has been playing during the last 10 years and according to family legend he has made a lot of money out of gambling (with no strategy). Because I learnt a little bit about probability at school I know that is impossible in a 10 year span of heavy gambling. However he is convinced he makes money and everybody else is too and anecdotal evidence from his last 4 gambling trips seems to confirm his "luck". I wonder if the fact that he is so sure about it makes him attract luck.

Do you think it is possible for intentions to overcome the laws of probability?

My second experience is with my father who is a very successful entrepreneur and recently discovered currency speculation, he has made a lot of money in the last 2 years and again, he is convinced trading is a piece of cake.

However his system is what I call "the anti whipsaw song system": he cuts the winners, hangs on to losers (adds to losers too), doesn't control risk, puts attention to every meaningless news imaginable and he doesn't follow any sort of system.

I know that doing this he is going to go bust, but I am trying to find a way of telling him without him getting mad at me which is what has happened in the last 2 years. I am very worried since it is a potential huge conflict between us since I also execute his trades.

I have promised myself not to control anybody, but I wonder how I can be helpful without trying to control him.

Probability applies to averages of many events.  The "probability" of a single event is 100% if it happens and 0% if it doesn't.

  Your Chances of Being
the Winning Sperm

are about 1 in 111,000,000.

So, congratulations
on beating the odds
and having a probability of 100%
of being the winner.

If you wish to apply the intimacy-centric model to your father, you might consider sharing your feelings about <him getting mad at you> with him. 

If this seems too formidable, you might consider beginning the process by taking your feelings about <anger> to Tribe - to gain insight and experience through role playing.
Monday, January 24, 2011



Could you please explain what "File the News" means.

"File the News" is one of the essentials of trading on the Essentials Card. 

It corresponds to the verse in The Whipsaw Song that deals with news-a-mental trading:

What do we do with a hot news flash ...
we stash that flash right in the trash.
Sunday, January 23, 2011

How I Feel About Our New Tribe

Hi Ed,

We have a wonderful "last" session for our continuous tribe. To my surprise, several members give me a heartfelt thank you for my work in the Tribe, and I feel very humble and grateful. I find myself blushing, loss of words, and some buzzing or tingling at the back of the head. I look forward to our new "10 session" tribe and wonder how that goes. I feel nervous of the uncertainty ahead, yet I feel strongly that it is the right thing to do in order for us to grow.

A fellow tribesman asks me a question and it leads me to some deep thought about what I intend to accomplish with the new Tribe and what I truly feel about it. Since I have an hour train ride to get home, it's a great opportunity to ponder.

Well, what I am really looking for is a way to happiness.

Or maybe more appropriately, deep satisfaction and fulfillment. I suppose there are many ways, but the one I know best is to identify what we feel strongly about, and enjoy the process of working hard to make those dreams come true. Doing that helps us realize deep down in our core that we are more powerful than we are. It empowers us. It frees us. When we follow and live our dream, we are truly alive, and every moment living is meaningful and beautiful.

If the continuous Tribe's weekly meeting is like pick-up basketball games on weekends where I organize for the casual ballers to come and play, I see the new Tribe as taking up a notch, where a group of basketball fanatics committing to play in an amateur league. There is a stronger sense of being in a team and helping one another, with a common goal to win a championship. I feel like I've learned a lot about what makes a good basketball player and what makes a good team, and I feel eager to apply what I've learned and put them to practice and see how they really work and how we measure up. Meanwhile we keep learning and practicing. Having our deeply-valued snapshots come true would be winning our championship.

I am sharing this with you, my tribe mates, and any FAQ readers in the NYC area who also share the kind of fanaticism and passion I have towards self-growth and dedication to make dreams come true. Our new tribe is starting its first meeting on February 9th. I feel very nervous, not knowing what will happen or how many will show up. I am aware that I am stepping outside my usual comfort zone, and I really feel that this is one step that I have to take in order to gain the leap I seek to set me free from the gravity that has been pulling me back. It is in this particular spirit that makes me truly value my teammates, my comrades, who are travelling with me on this journey, and whom I can count on to have my back and I have theirs.

I also have a weird imagery in which we tribesmen are like Nazi concentration camps POWs. We work hard and we work together to get ourselves free. And while I definitely want to get myself free, I would consider it a huge success as long as we get one guy out. He is going to live a great life for the rest of us. Freedom is when we can make our wildest dreams come true.

Thank you for being our inspiration.
Thank you for sharing your process.
Sunday, January 23, 2011



Over the years I kept a notebook, jotting down things about the market and notes that I pickup from TT FAQ.

In looking back over them recently, I noticed that at some point I stopped dating the entries.

The idea of staying in the now is taking root. I write the notes NOW. I read the notes

NOW. I re-read the notes NOW. So no need to date them.

The second thing, is that recently a friend came over and we discussed stocks and how to follow them. He is more in tune with William O'Neil's methodology. We talked about how to incorporate some of O,Neil's ideas like EPS strength along with price strength. I gave it a try for a couple of days, woke up one morning and looked at my notes and there was no clarity.

I had to stop and go back to pure price action for anything to make sense to me.

A lot of people say follow the KISS principle..{KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID.].

but for me, I seem to operate best on a KIDS level. "KEEP IT DAM SIMPLE".
Thank you for sharing your process.
Saturday, January 22, 2011

Chinese Mothers

Dear Ed,

How is the new book coming along?

I recently came across this article. I would like to know your thoughts on this.

Take care.
In general, Oriental students out-perform American students.

While this might have something to do with parental pressure, it might also have to do with the American educational system.

The intention of much of the our system is to train students in (1) the causal model, (2) political correctness (3) acceptance of institutional authority and (4) feminization of males / Ritalin, etc.

Oriental culture, lacking these intentions, produces different results.

If you really want to improve education, you simply pay students for passing tests - the higher the grade the more they get. 

Entrepreneurs are likely to quickly find ways to get kids through the tests, in exchange for a piece of the action - compete with each other to make schools fun, advertise on TV, etc.

You might consider taking your feelings about <educating your children> to Tribe.

Public Schools

do a good job
of training children
to accept the educational intention.

supports innovation.

Pubic School Teacher Unions
oppose competition.

 Saturday, January 22, 2011

New Rocks Process


I follow very closely the development of the Rock process as you and other Tribe leaders describe it. In our Tribe use mostly traditional TTP (intensifying the forms to the edge and beyond) and my Tribesmen report very profound and changes and developments. We also use a variation of the process, in which people on the hot seat do let the forms blossom, but long before the edge we help them discover that the form is just the resistance against a feeling that they do not want to experience. This second method is smoother and less intense but as least as effective as traditional TTP.

In our Tribe we have mixed experiences with the Rock process. When Hotseat shows a fully blossomed form and we ask him about a earlier event when he/she experiences the same feelings than now, more often than not Hotseat cannot recall it. In this case, we proceed with traditional TTP, which mostly leads to a dissolution of the form.

As I understand it, you introduced the Rocks process after observing people getting stuck, using TTP medicinally to release emotional tension and developing signature forms which they repeat meeting after meeting. In all this time (2 1/2 years and about 150 processes with 20 different Tribesmen), I recall only once observing a signature form.

I wonder what we are doing differently than the Austin Tribe. I think that this information can be relevant for other Tribes alas.

Best regards,
Thank you for sharing your process.

The method of interrupting a form at its peak to locate a critical event requires some experience and subtlety.

In particular, if you assault your client with questions (per your "we ask him about a earlier event") you are likely to pull him out of his trance state and back into his conscious mind.

You might consider using TTP suggestive syntax that avoids questions and stays with SVO-p.

For example, "OK. Freeze it right there.  Great.  Now, you might notice yourself recalling an incident from your youth when you feel exactly the same way as you are feeling now, as a child."