The Trading Tribe
(c) Ed Seykota 2003-2011 - Write for permission to reprint.
Ed Seykota's FAQ
Readers Say Ed Says

June 1, 2011

Atlanta Tribe Invitation

Good morning Ed,

I noticed you are planning a world-wide journey with the aim of visiting and supporting the various trading tribes. We in the Atlanta Trading Tribe (about 12 members) would like to invite you to one of our meetings if your schedule allows.

We would enjoy meeting with you, and more importantly, perhaps you could help point us in the right direction in terms of running a more "Seykota-like" tribe. We have been meeting since late 2009.

I could transport you to/from the ATL airport, although I may not be able to house you in ATL since my wife and I are in our first post-college apartment and there is barely enough room for the two of us and our puppy!

On a more personal note, I wish to thank you for doing what you do and thinking the way you do, in terms of operating your website and often questioning conventional wisdom. You inspire many, including myself, and because of you and a few other key influences, I have been able to manage a successful trend following fund for my friends and family since 2008. I feel very fortunate to be on the right track of living the Right Livelihood. Thank you.

Best regards,

PS While in Atlanta, if you would like to golf, fish, or even visit the North GA mountains (my in-laws have a lake house in N. GA on Lake Burton), I would be honored to spend time getting to know you.

Thank you for the invitation.

June 1, 2011

Creating Drama

Dear Master Ed,

First of all I want to apologize for not sending my report for the last meeting. I don't like falling behind my commitments.

I feel the meeting has a lower intensity, we are now working more towards using practical tools to overcome daily problems with the use of the Intimacy Model, I found these tools very useful, I want to put them in practice right now.

I also notice that some of the tribe members are very happy with their progress others less so, but we have definitely moved forward as a group. I feel weird, last month I was in the right way to fulfill my goals and I was feeling strong, in a single month everything crashed and then some more. You suggest I am probably addicted to the drama and I am the one creating it, from what I know about the system model, I realize this is true.

I send an e-mail to my partner telling him how I feel and proposing a new deal, he appreciates my sincerity and receives me. He doesn't feel very comfortable with my initial proposal but he says that he is happy we are clarifying everything, I get the feeling that no matter what we decide at the end, it is going to be the best solution for both. I notice that telling people how I feel works better than giving explanations.

My life has a lot of drama now, but I see that and accept responsibility, it is my intention to come back to Right Livelihood.

During the meeting Ed also performs hypnosis, the work is very interesting, he mentions it is useful in certain kind of situations. I cannot stop thinking how cool being in a tribe is, I always get new insights. At the end of the meeting, [Name] says goodbye to everybody because he won't be in the next meeting, I notice I am very sad, I consider him a very good friend. I hope we will stay in touch.

Thank you for sharing your process and insights.

June 1, 2011

Dear Ed,

At the last tribe meeting we talk about the practical implementation of the intimacy model, and how we go about using it with others who might have no understanding of emotional intimacy. In our talk, you observe that to achieve real intimacy both parties must be willing to share and receive feelings. Therefore, when engaging others with the intimacy model it is important for us to test for the other person's willingness.

You point out that if we insist that another person be intimate, we are no longer using the intimacy model. Instead, we are attempting to control the other person by using the intimacy model as an instrument of control. You note that when we are operating within the intimacy model we accept another person's desire not to be intimate. We accept the person for who that person is, and likewise accept any outcome in the relationship. If we experience a feeling of frustration when attempting to be intimate, it is often a sign that we are operating in the control model. We are attempting to control or change the other person.

As the conversation proceeds I sense some discomfort. I like helping others. I like seeing people I care about grow and succeed. But I also like getting involved. I like being an instrument of change. I like providing people with information that can better their lives, and I have an attachment to seeing them act on my advice. I now see that I have a view of love, friendship, and support that involves a certain degree of paternalism; that is to say, control.

When I return from our tribe meeting I reflect on this element of my behavior and notice a desire for control in other areas. In business, I have a subtle yet persistent desire to control the outcome of business dealings. For example, I recently draft a contract to enlist the support of a trading coach. In drafting the contract, I feel anxious about how the other person is going to view certain key sections. I am afraid of offending this person, and decide to draft the contract by largely avoiding these sections. I ultimately draft a contract which the other person views as ambiguous and incomplete. Rather than moving the process forward, it seems that my desire for control is having the opposite effect.

On another occasion, I meet with a potential client and feel a strong attachment to leaving the meeting with a commitment from him to invest. Throughout the meeting I am attempting to move the conversation toward a commitment. As as result, I have a superficial meeting with the client and never really connect. When the meeting ends without a firm commitment, I leave feeling frustrated that I cannot control the outcome. Again, my desire for control seems to only result in less control.

Finally, I notice that when dealing with my wife I feel uncomfortable when she expresses anger or sadness without referring to her actual feelings. When she expresses those feelings without using the TTP method, I often insist that she uses the intimacy model, rather than just speaking off-the-cuff. I see now that this is an attempt on my part to exert control over the situation, rather than a genuine effort to hear how she is really feeling. I am using the intimacy model to manage the expression of her feelings so that I can avoid the feelings which are arising in me.

Thank you, Ed, for prompting this very important dialog about the intimacy model, control, and attachment. I am noticing several areas in my life where I am unwittingly operating within the control model.

Best regards,

Thank you for sharing your insights.

People Who Control Others

typically also depend on them.

June 1, 2011

The End


Last Tribe was rather enjoyable. Ed shows us he is a hypnotist, I am very skeptical. We have a volunteer he wants to deals with a certain set issues he has. As Ed starts the process, I realize I am going in the trance also. It's was different feeling than being asleep. Once the process is over I awaken and feel very energetic. I notice that I shared the same fears and a lot of the same personality traits as [Name]. I have a new found respect for hypnotism.

Earlier in the tribe session I relate with Ed on what is going on in the world and share similar views. In some level I connect with everyone at the tribe, the one thing I like is everyone is themselves free from judgment. I feel sadness knowing that we are coming to an end. It's been a real experience to be apart of this. Thank you Ed.



in trading and in relationships

indicates loss.

June 1, 2011

Austin Trading Tribe Update 05/19/2011


We discuss some other situations or approaches that TTP is being utilized. We discuss how TTP can be used as a type of medication and feelings being simply exhausted. Feelings felt to exhaustion do not offer a change or shift in response at the provocation of the feeling…so the feeling reasserts itself after some time. TTP used as medication seems to be a temporary fix that exhausts the feeling only.

We discuss hypnosis and the process of hypnosis. I notice the similarities with hypnosis, TTP and breathwork. Ed asks for a volunteer who would like to “demo” hypnosis for the tribe. A tribe member volunteers and I notice the tribe member having difficulty getting into trance. Ed asks the tribe member to place a hand on his thigh and to notice the hand is fully connected with the thigh and is actually a part of the thigh. The tribe member is able to displace his hand easily which seems to indicate resistance. Ed asks tribe members on either side of the tribe member to speak words into the tribe member’s ear. One tribe member says to “go into trance”, “relax and let go” and the tribe member on the other side says “stay awake”, don’t let go”, “stay alert” and “don’t go into trance”. The competing messages eventually induce a trance state. After the tribe member is completely relaxed Ed develops a doorway for the subconscious mind to open and a staircase to descend…after descending the staircase there is a hallway and then a room is entered. Inside the room are feelings related to fear, humiliation and torment. The tribe member appears to experience these feelings spontaneously. Many emotions are demonstrated…crying, sobbing, grief, fear, etc.  At some moment in time the tribe member appears to integrate the positive intention of these feelings and become friends with these feelings. Ed brings the tribe member out of hypnosis after the integration process and I notice a considerable change in countenance.

I identify with the tribe member in these feelings of fear, humiliation and torment. I notice myself being more comfortable if I am in a state of torment or self humiliation. It is a terrible existence. It seems that at times this feeling has departed or I have become friends with this feeling only for it to return again. Thank you Ed and tribe for this demonstration…I feel hope from watching and participating in this process. I look forward in anticipation and also feel some sadness that our last tribe meeting is coming up.

Thank you for sharing your process.

June 3, 2011

Austin Tribe Series Summary

Dear Ed and fellow tribe members,

I express gratitude to each of you for our journey together "in the trenches".

With No Doubt, our work together propels us to places we don't imagine.

Our new capabilities lead us to more fulfillment and provide more fulfillment to those around us.

I am more aware now of my listening to others and the very subtle difference between listening/acknowledging without judgment vs. listening/judging then offering remedy which then often leads to a "fight".

I wish to know how to deeply care at the interface in a manner that dignifies respect as well as indifference.

I report that perhaps I didn't realize the relationship I wished for in my goal is actually here.

[Name] is a very spirited woman. She amazes me with her beauty, animation, care and comfort.

I thank you all.

Thank you for sharing your insights.



Likely an Excellent Conversationalist

June 3, 2011

Article on the Fed


Here is the article on the fed.

Thank you for the link. Quinn seems to have the perceptiveness to put the story together and the courage to tell it.

June 3, 2011

Caning the Child - Unchaining the Adult

It's nearly two years since my first workshop, and over 6 months since my local tribe got going. Lots of good hot seats and role plays and good results from them. But I always defer one issue. I feel if I really open this one up my anger may get out of control and it may be dangerous to me and others.

Since age 8 I have daily flashbacks of a cruel teacher who used the cane every day. She would cane you for sitting next to someone who was caught talking in class, or for having to go to the toilet during class, and for lots of other things. Later there were other similar things with other teachers, parents. I thought an incident in year 7 - when I watched another boy get a huge belting - had the worst effect by far.

Last tribe I committed to take this one to the hot seat this time. This week I start by briefly explaining the background and why I am afraid to take this one to the hot seat and we start.

The first hot seat attempt goes for a while and I get a little bit worked up but I then I stop. I feel I am getting upset but I don't want to cry in front of everyone. I feel frustrated. Members encourage me to have another try and not hold back. This time I get more into it, screaming and raging, rolling on the floor and really feeling my anger at "Tiger" as we called her. I reach a point of maximum intensity and hold it for about 15-20 seconds. I hear the question - "Did you every feel like this before, early in your life?".

I am a bit surprised that an incident with the first teacher comes to mind that I rarely think about. It seems not the worst one at all. I ask to role play it. Other tribe members are reluctant, thinking I should do another round on the hot seat first. We argue about whether I have really got to the point of maximum intensity. We work through one of Ed's description of the rocks process. We are slow and laborious as each point seems to provoke extensive debate. Eventually we get to the actual role play and we do it. There is debate whether one person can play multiple roles in a role play (he did and it worked fine).

In the role play I am caught talking in class. I have to write my name on the board and wait until the next break, to be caned. I then have to come out the front of the class and get caned and then go back to my seat. We re-enact all this. I feel frightened and weak and vulnerable and embarrassed. After the re-enactment I burst into tears and sob loudly. I stop for a little while then start again, louder. Then I feel I have cried all my tears. It occurs to me these are the tears I wanted to cry at the time but "boys don't cry".

The next step is to find out what strategy I employ. I have a flash of insight. My strategy is to avoid thinking about what is happening and focus on the revenge I am going to get against this person. I hold onto the thought of revenge as a way to get through the situation. I hold onto it afterwards too. We go through my life picking out times when I employ this strategy. I notice that holding on to anger at past grievances is something I do constantly. I identify the rock donor. I think about the effects of this strategy on the donor as well as on me.

My tribe are not convinced - they think I am holding out on them. They are right. There is one situation where I hold on to my revenge that I feel ashamed of. I tell them this. I decide not to tell them about the situation but I am fully aware of it. It is not that I did a terrible thing to anyone but I just don't want to share it. They accept this.

Then we identify lots of good new resources. I decide that I want the new resources and that I want to mostly use the new resources instead of my old strategy of holding on to thoughts of revenge when a person does a bad thing to me.

We get to the point of re-enacting the role play. Using my new resources I believe I would have been able to avoid being punished that time so we re-enact the situation leading to the punishment and me using my new resources. Mentally I also re-enact the punishment scene to see what happens. It is bad but I seem to get over it this time. It hurts physically but that's all.

I release everyone from their roles and we debrief. The whole process took about 2 hours.

During the next few days I find myself revisiting all those incidents and somehow I reprocess them. I re-experience them using new strategies this time. All this happens without a conscious intention to do this. It just happens spontaneously.

One afternoon I go to the library with the idea of finding out if "Tiger" and other teachers are still alive by looking at old phone books etc. I can't find her. The other teachers are mostly dead. On the way home I realize that it doesn't matter much and I can leave it behind me now. I did find out the name of one teacher I loved. I just knew her as "Miss X" but now I know her first name and seeing her name triggers fond memories of her.

During the week a few things happen where people do bad things or let me down. I get angry briefly at times but then calmly take the required steps. I waste no time on thoughts of revenge. The flashbacks are gone.

My tenant has not complied with the notice to quit (I am selling the house and need her out). We will go through the process to get her removed. The agent is angry with the tenant, my wife is angry with the tenant and with the government for having laws biased towards the tenant. I am just angry enough to take the required steps. I realize she was an unsuitable tenant and I knew this and took the risk. I learn something. My wife expresses surprise that I did not fly into a (partially suppressed) rage as I normally would have.

The thing I mentioned about that I was so ashamed of also seems to have gone away.

It will take a while to integrate all this fully into my way of being but already a huge burden is lifted and I am functioning very differently.

Thank you for sharing your process of confronting your anger and developing new resources. This is a huge gift to yourself and to those around you.


Beating Children

leaves scars, far below the surface.

June 3, 2011


Hi Ed,

A few months ago you mention the idea of sending one of my band's songs for the Tribe "music" page. I attach an HTML file with lyrics and some code to stream one of our songs called "In Your Soul". It requires the listener to have Adobe Flash Player installed on their computer.

Thank you for all you do,

Thank you for sharing your music.

June 5, 2011

A Poem

Hi Ed,

Thinking of you buddy. Here is a poem I thought you might enjoy by Robinson Jeffers.

All the best,

Thank you for the poem.

June 7, 2011

Wants to Join Austin Tribe


I am writing to inquire about joining the Austin trading tribe. Here is a little bit on my background. [brief CV]. At the beginning I was unaware of it, but I actually utilized many trend trading principles to select the best risks and cede the worst risks.

As a hobby over the past few years I spent a large amount of time reading about and studying trend trading. This included many visits to your site. During the next twelve months I am subject to a non-compete in the reinsurance industry which has given me the opportunity to explore a move into trading full time. Over the past two months I have written some trend trading models and portfolio management systems to support my risk taking. This work has been done primarily in Python. It has been very enjoyable and I find myself excited at the prospect of trading as a profession.

This brings me to what I want to accomplish using TTP. There are really two things. The first thing I would like to accomplish is to improve my connection to others. During my time at [firm] we had consultants coach management in communication. The consultants used something very similar to the TTP. I have even been in the hot seat previously. Since going it alone, I find that I miss the sessions with my teammates that helped us further our communication and work on our feelings. Specifically I was working on becoming better able to communicate effectively in the "medicinal" politically correct model which seemed to be the dominant model within my organization and in the reinsurance market in general. I think there maybe something in your intimacy model which would help me understand the point of view of those who use the politically correct model.

The second thing I would like to accomplish would be to work on the fear and anxiety that has crept into the development of my trading systems. When I was in a company environment there were plenty of people to talk about risk and reward with who had more or different experiences that could add value to my decisions. I think a tribe would be an effective replacement for the team environment I previously had access to.

In return, I think that I have much to offer the team. I have a strong understanding of risk management and capital management given the fact that I have managed portfolios of risk. Reinsurance portfolios are different than investment portfolios but I think that some of the principles that I am versed in could help others that have only been exposed to more traditional financial markets. I also have Python programming experience. Given the open nature of Python, I think that it is a language well suited to trend trading systems. In addition, my actuarial background and experience with statistics could be beneficial to those who come from other backgrounds.

My wife, three children, pets and myself are relocating to Austin sometime over the next 6 weeks. The exact date is dependent on finding a place to live. I would like the opportunity to attend a meeting if possible. Let me know if there are any prerequisites you may have. I can provide references if necessary. If the Austin tribe is closed, I would appreciate it if you could keep me on the list for your next workshop. Thank you for the effort you have put in over the past years in sharing your knowledge and process.

Kind Regards,

Thank you for your interest in the work. Watch the index page for workshop notices.

June 8, 2011

Completing the Series


It was a great 10 sessions of learning and changing. I remember back when I was deciding whether to commit to the tribe and how I felt about traveling so far and wondering what it would be like. I feel great that I elected to join your tribe.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "The more I learn, the more I realize what I don't know"? That is how I feel right now. I feel you would agree with me that from the time I have worked with TTP since last December I have changed immensely. I see how much more I can do and have a real desire to do it!

One of our members spoke about the commitment to attend every meeting. There can be many hassles and it can be easy to find excuses not to attend but without a doubt the work that is done in a group like this is worth it.

I wish you great success in the new book and the ranch. I would like to offer to work with you on your project. If you feel that I would bring some help to you, please ask as I get a great feeling in being involved in your work.

Thank you for your support.

June 9, 2011

Left Hand Red Head


Today, I meet a new woman.

{Name] expresses genuine desire to live what you love and we get what we want.

She communicates that feelings are at the root of everything, and with little prompting from me.

At the end of our evening, I express to her that I feel it is easy for her and I to develop and experience intimacy.

She simply concurs without a lot of fanfare.

She is a left-handed redheaded woman that is very present.

Thank you for your support.

In Love and in the Markets

Finding a beauty begins a process

of holding on and letting go.