The Trading Tribe
Ed Seykota's FAQ
Home | Send Mail to FAQ | Resources | Ground Rules | FAQ Index

Govopoly in the News

Contributors Say Ed Says
Apr 19, 2015

Trust Issues


I wake up this morning and realize I have an issue with distrust.

During a conversation yesterday with a friend I recall an interaction with a successful trader who starts to take me under his wing and teach me. After relaying this story I vomit. My unwillingness to feel distrust allows me to act in a way that the trader sees as sneeky and ultimately he blows up and walks away in anger and distrust. I feel confusion as my actions come from a place of curiosity and admiration. I see now a timeline of my actions throughout my life colored by my unwillingness to feel distrust fully. Interactions with friends, coworkers, parents, and mate seem to have a similar or inverted storyline. I see a strong entry point for this week's tribe meeting.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Apr 17, 2015

Intentions and Results


I do have some more thoughts on our conversation regarding the nature of intention. While I agree that the "intention = result" equation is a strong one, I am very interested in detailing further my thoughts on the indeterminate nature of "intention-in-progress" prior to the "result".

The way I see it, if "intention-in-progress" is indeterminate, the only thing that makes "intention" determinate is the declaration that a result has been reached. The only thing that makes a "result" reachable is the determination that the window of time during which the "intention-in-progress" could unfold has elapsed.

Therefore, if the window of time in which the "intention-in-progress" may unfold is ALSO indeterminate (since it relies on future information) it stands to reason that the determination of the "result-point" is indeterminate as well.

This means that the only way to declare a "result-point" is by doing so, like all things, in the present tense. Therefore, if you simply refrain from declaring a result-point until the desired outcome is reached, it stands to reason that you are left with two possible outcomes:

1) All of your desired intentions/results are realized.
2) You die trying.

Naturally this does not jive if others have the ability to declare a result-point for you, such as being late to an appointment or failing to deliver something on time. But in terms of intentions for which you are the only judge, it stands to reason that only you can decide the true "result-point."

I am curious how you feel about this.

Thank you for raising this issue.

In TTP, we consider a system has an intention (its structure) and a result (its behavior).

As such, intention and result present two views of the same thing; in brief, we say, intention = result.

In TTP, we also have ourselves living in one continuously evolving moment of now - with no access to the non-existing past or non-existing future.

As election season comes upon us, you might notice the campaign speeches, in which the candidates park their failures in the non-existing past and their promises in the non-existing future; they do keep regulations and taxes in the now, since they actually wish to apply and collect them.

I like your notion of Intention-In-Progress.

You might consider noticing how it associates with a corresponding Result-in-Progress.

If you try to match your Intention-In-Progress with The-Result-At-A-Future-Point, you have a temporal mismatch, handy perhaps for a Star Trek plot, somewhat indeterminate for understanding dynamics.

Intention = Result

At every moment of now, we have
an intention (structure)
and an associating result (behavior).

Apr 17, 2015

Wants to Attend a TTP Workshop

Dear Mr. Seykota,

Thank you very much for sending out The Trading Tribe which arrived yesterday. Excellent indeed.

I just wondered when you were next taking a workshop please, as I would very much like to attend.

Have a lovely weekend


Thank you for raising this issue.

I generally host Workshops in response to requests, such as yours.

Apr 16, 2015

Making It Through A Divorce - With a Happy Daughter

My Dear Ed,

Hope you are fine and have settled well in your new place.

I like to share my progress. This feedback may let you know that many like me are benefiting from your guidance.

You have stated that everybody gets .... [what they want].

Last year I start focusing on markets again. I decide that in spite of my divorce proceedings I need to focus on making money again.

This brings in clarity.

Over last three years I write to you and read FAQs.

This helps a lot.

Your answers and views have helped me a lot.

I make 2.53 times returns last year. I feel satisfied. As per the data I may be in the topmost % of tax payers in [Country]. Very few people in [Country] have income of more than [amount].

I get divorce in Dec 2014. I handle it as calmly as possible though inside I am quite shaken. I read TT book pages. This also helps.

My daughter insists on taking a vacation. She has opted to reside with me.

We go to a beautiful place in [Place].

I like to click her happy moments. I attach herewith two of her pics of our
vacation there.

She seems to be happy again. I feel that both my children appreciate the way I make money and the way I handle my divorce and alimony.

To a certain extent I feel better now having escaped from a abusive relationship of last many years. I feel I am not an assertive person and do not like arguments. This does not help.

So I intent to learn more and take better care of my family and me.

Thank you once again.

I love you!

Best wishes,

Happy Daughter


Thank you for sharing your process and for the photos of your daughter.
Apr 15, 2015

Inter-Tribe Message

Ed (and others),

Cheers for the report, [Name].

'Things going well: I don't have cancer', easily your best line ever! 馃槀

Good work [Name] on having a crack at the HS. My Anecdotal interpretation of your process:

- the drama around your sons university effort provides the entry point: 'anger'
- ramp up 'anger' in a hot seat and a critical incident associated with 'disappointment' and 'sadness' comes up.

I imagine if you probe the 'sadness/disappointment' feelings in a hot seat you might find a critical incident involving yourself [Name 2] observing your parents behaviour towards each other where one or the other internalises their feelings of 'sadness/disappointment'. Conclusion: looks like a stack of judges about feelings to me. Just some thoughts on the process ...

Have a good day ...

Thank you for sharing your feedback.
Apr 15, 2015

Tribe Report - Cancer Free


Member #1 reports he is happy with his new trading system but a bit impatient to confirm it really works consistently in actual trading - so far so good. Feels frustrated that his friend's recovery from serious illness is slow and incomplete. Some health issues (skin problems) get worse. I express some frustration that he does not seem to be doing obvious things to fix the problem, but I acknowledge that he owns his body.

Member #3 (me) things going well. I appear not to have cancer after all. I am doing another scan on Monday to make sure but the signs so far are good. Hormone therapy now bedded down and working well. My wife has also changed her treatment regime and she is still working through some bugs but it is looking good. The last hot seat is working well, I work on my trading systems with more ease and at the same time I focus better.

Member #8 missed the last meeting due to a domestic crisis after his 19 year old son dropped out of university. He had not been showing up to classes but his parents had been supporting him and paying college fees even paying for unnecessary medical treatments. M#8 feels angry at the time but focuses on dealing with the problem constructively. A few days later he blows up at his wife about the issue. He sees this as a pattern of failing to keep a lid on his anger, which he feels gets out of control.

M#8 has never done a full hot seat, with rocks, in spite of having been in Tribe on and off for a long time. He decides "what the h--- why show up if you don't do it?". So we embark on the hot seat. He seems to summon a fair degree of intensity but evidently (confirmed later) feels very uncomfortably ramping up a 'bad' feeling such as anger. He does succeed though and the expression on his face is quite transformed - he looks confused and vulnerable.

In the search for an earlier incident he comes up with an occasion when he and a teacher teased one another but it got out of hand and he began crying inconsolably at age 13. He never did this again. His usual pattern is to hold feelings inside. So this was not a typical incident.

He can't remember getting "angry" much at all. But he does remember getting "upset". He got this pattern from mom who would get "upset" over something, or perhaps just on account of general dissatisfaction. The rest of the family would walk on eggshells until it "blew over".

He settles on the recent incident with his son dropping out and his later outburst at Bluesfest. We reenact with the mother donating:

1. Be nice, at least on the surface.
2. Do not show your anger overtly.
3. (But everyone knows full well you are angry).
4. Blow up later on "unexpectedly".

On reenacting this we make sure HS fully owns the fact that these are his strategies.

HS selects as new strategies:

1. Express (e.g. to his wife) and feel the anger early / in the moment.
2. Share this strategy with his wife.

HS is concerned that if he expresses his anger his wife will be frightened. Even though his wife had herself said at the time "I am very angry". We discuss the difference between feeling the anger and disappointment and enacting those feelings in violence. Previous HS had used a punching bag to "work through" anger. This alarmed his wife. A few of us share that our wives are very supportive of our Tribe work because of the improvements they have seen, especially once they understand how it works. One way to explain it to his wife is that if he experiences the anger and processes it, makes it his friend and finds its positive intention, and uses that energy in a proactive way, the actual prospect of violence decreases exponentially.

A number of other points come up such as "Consider your own role in creating the situation you are angry about" but HS did not want to put them in the list.

We reenact and offer the old rock again, several times: "it's been a good strategy and has worked for you for a long time"; "you are comfortable with it and know how to use it"; "it's a great strategy - I recommend it". HS politely but firmly says and shows that it is not for him any more. His mother can keep it if she wants it for herself.

He accepts the new rock and runs through various scenarios in his life to see how it would work. He expresses satisfaction.

In check-out I recall hot seats of my own, when - having removed the need to suppress feelings - I felt much more energized subsequently. Perhaps HS will find something similar. Also this hot seat seems to have prompted feelings and recalls in the rest of us of hot seats of our own.

There being no other hot seats, we close early.

Thank you for sharing your process and for documenting your meeting.
Apr 14, 2015

Missing Deadlines

Dear Ed,

Thank you for suggesting to keep on missing the deadline and find the feelings that go with it. I set two self-imposed deadlines over the weekend and miss them both.

Two nights in a row, I awaken in the middle of the night with my feelings and mind churning. The feeling a very intense. After I fully experience the feelings I get up and take notes. I feel fear, indigestion (burning sensation) and a tight ball of pressure in my chest on both occasions.

Lots of stuff comes up; my various open commitments (explicit and implicit), my brother asking me to "get involved" in the end stages of his life, various stuff involving my dad, fears about growing old and fragile, fears about the monetary system, fears of being prepared, etc.

On the second occasion, I go back to sleep and awake in the morning with a memory of rebuilding a tractor engine with my dad when I was eight or nine years old. I recall tearing it apart and parts all over the floor. I also recall not wanting to be there and trying to annoy my dad so he will let me leave and go play. I do not remember how the engine got put back together.

I call my dad and ask him about this. At first he vaguely remembers any of this. Then he begins to remember rebuilding the engine because of carbon build up in the pistons. We laugh together when I tell him I remember trying to annoy him so he would let me go. We laugh and talk about the tractor for a while. Unfortunately, he does not remember if I help him put the engine back together.

Thank you for your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.

You might like to notice a famous deadline coming up tomorrow.

Apr 14, 2015

TTP in Spanish


I refer to our agreement of improving your Spanish. On Apr 11, 2015 TTP Workshop Follow-Up you write

"Tambi茅n dice que (en el modelo de l贸gica centrada): "Capit谩n, no veo la l贸gica en eso."

"En el modelo de l贸gica centrada" means "in the centred logic model" or "in the model of centred logic".

I suppose that you rather mean "en el modelo centrado en la l贸gica", "logic-centric model".

The same would apply to intimacy-centric (modelo centrado en la intimidad) or control-centric model (modelo centrado en el control).

- - - - -

I thank the PRTT and the guy who takes the hot seat on Mar 27, 2015 (Tribe Report: Losing a Tooth and Learning to Set Limits) for his willingness to work on his issues. This report enlightens some aspects of my own patterns and shows me several possibilities about how to apply processes.

Best regards,

Gracias por ayudarme a mejorar mi espa帽ol.


Apr 13, 2015

Wants to Join a Tribe in London

Dear Ed,

I would like to contact the London area Tribes to see if it is possible to join a group. I have tried clicking on the links in the trade directory but these are not working. Sorry to bother you with this IT issue but I am very interested in joining a group.

Kind regards,

Thank you for raising this issue.

Tribes come and go; sometimes they post listings for the Tribe Directory; sometimes they remove their listings.

If you do not find a Tribe in your area, you may start your own.
Apr 13, 2015


Dear Ed,

Thanks for the definition of medication and the different purposes of activity.

I want to understand how, and when, to tell the difference.

Do I stop before engaging in an activity and wonder about its purpose?

For example, one of your readers tells his wife he engages in destructive trading and she asks him if he checked in with his feelings prior to engaging in the medicinal behavior. The assumption seems to be that he might realize the destructive pattern and then refrain from it.

In other words, prior "restraint" is possible with timely analysis of impulses.

After all, the goal is change, yes? Not just waking up from one more repetition and realizing the pattern after the fact.

Thank you for raising this issue.

An addict does not typically respond proactively to his own addiction; he generally ignores, denies and further medicates his condition.

In general, a person who responds medicinally to his emotions (rather than proactively) has little inclination to change his behavior, or even have awareness of it.

Thus, the DIM (Do It Myself) process generally works mostly with very minor surface issues.

To get at deeper issues, we employ a Tribe - that can bring group pressure and a culture of helping each other - to spot and discharge medicinal patterns - and to replace them with proactive ones.

In the case you cite, the client now has personal awareness of a deep historical pattern of self-sabotage. He even discusses it with his wife - although neither of them seem to understand the mechanism.

He can proceed further, illuminating his medicinal response patterns and replacing them with proactive response patterns - by taking his situation to Tribe and hopping on the hot seat.


includes trying to control
the addiction.

Apr 12, 2015


Dear Ed,

I wonder if you might define the process of "medicating".

Sometimes I can see clearly that I seek to distract myself from a more difficult feeling: for instance, when I want to overeat at times that I feel stressed.

But other times I wonder, what if I just enjoy eating? What if I want someone to hold me or give me compliments because I feel happy when that happens, and not because I want to "medicate" feelings of loneliness or unworthiness?

I try to honor my feelings but I get mixed up about when it's "okay" to just go ahead and act on an impulse or desire.

Thanks for the concept and any light you can shed on it.

Thank you for raising this issue.

In TTP, medication refers to an activity that makes feelings go away without dealing with the underlying situation.

An activity may function proactively or medicinally, depending on the situation.

For example, you might eat proactively in response to hunger; you might eat medicinally to make the feeling of loneliness go away.
Apr 11, 2015

TTP Workshop Follow-Up


It's been 6-months since the TTP Workshop in Carolina, PR.

Here's what I sent in my 1-month follow-up: "It's been a month since the TTP Workshop in Puerto Rico. I enjoy using the 'count to 10' method to 'keep on keeping on' with my system development. I improve my systems by letting them pick what to trade. I feel all my feelings. I stay present in the now as events unfold."

I am pleased to report more progress in those areas: I set goals, break them into tasks, and tackle the next step much more easily than I used to. I continue to develop my system by broadening my universe (the list of instruments I can trade) and letting my system pick which ones to trade. I am more comfortable "in the now" -- just being here -- I like that a lot. I would say I am weakest in feeling all my feelings and recognizing their positive intentions for me -- I continue to work on that.

In my trading, as in life, I'm sticking to the basics: letting winners run, cutting losses short, measuring and managing my risks.

Thanks for all your help and, as the late Leonard Nimoy might have said, Larga Vida y Prosperidad!

Thank you for sharing your process.

Tambi茅n dice que (en el modelo de l贸gica centrada en el modelo centrado en la l贸gica): "Capit谩n, no veo la l贸gica en eso.

Apr 11, 2015

Dealing with a Cold - Collateral Medication

Dear Chief,

This week I have a cold and find it difficult to focus, taste, think or even feel anything other than the symptoms of headache and stuffy nose.

I decide to go to work and trade anyway.
I take an assortment of symptom annulling medicines and drink an extra coffee to feel more awake.

Initially the approach shows promise. I notice I feel a little better on my way out and more or less awake by the time I get to my office. The headache is manageable.

I start my trading. Systems are on and I'm also manually executing a number of approaches that I intend to automate.

The morning goes well. I win some and lose some and the net results for the day are good. I contemplate going home.
I feel the medicine wearing off. My head hurts and I'm spaced out. Still, it's not as bad as it had been. I decide to stay a little longer to see what I can do.

At this point it's hours later. I find I'm still at the desk and executing trades with many times the size I feel comfortable with. I feel nothing. I feel like I've been blacking out. I experience a string of losses on large size and "wake up" as the trading day session comes to an end.

I'm very surprised at what I've done. It's as if the thinking feeling me was not present.

I tell my wife what happened and how I feel when I get home. I feel upset by how I behave . I feel as though I let my family down and that my lapse of judgement is a transgression against them. I share that sometimes I feel afraid that I won't be able to provide well enough and take care of everyone and that and that I'm frustrated by my own behavior.

She asks me if I had stopped to assess how I felt before trading like I had in the past ( I have a rule for discretionary trading and trade implementation that is along the lines of "do not operate heavy machinery while impaired" for me this means: tired, upset, impatient, anxious or sick.

I tell her I did everything else on my checklist and forgot the "trader wellness" section.

I see now that medicating my symptoms made it very easy to not feel anything including my sub standard condition or the risk I was taking.

It was an expensive and valuable lesson.

I would like to address this and work on <black out feelings with chemicals> at our next meeting. This behavior sneaks in to my trading and my life. It is something I would like to understand through TTP with the help of Tribe and change.

I feel afraid about asking for help with this issue.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your process.

A Cold
can serve as medication

for deeper issues.
Apr 11, 2015

More on Down Syndrome

Dear Ed,

Thank you for your response to my e-mail. I am giving it careful consideration and when my tribe meets again I will "take this to Tribe".

I want send in my experience with the breath work I did right after the last e-mail. Shortly after I sent the e-mail to you I did a Breathwork session. What I do is listen to evocative music and follow the same type of breathing I do at your location and take an issue or question with me to the other side.

This session got me into a dark place and I felt alone, abandoned and forsaken. Then I heard or felt "this how your brother felt at the end of his life when you were to be caring for him" (he was a drug addict and my parents asked me to care for him before they died).

Then I was with my brother and we were both feeling these feelings and both acknowledged that it was his path and not my place to try to fix him and he did not hold me responsible. He understood that I was trying to help him quit the drugs and that I have all sorts of feelings over it and now understand some of his feelings.

Overall it was not what I expected but, very enlightening. Two days later I decide to try another session, same issue and same question. Basically I have no income, I have no money, I have no prospects and I don't know what to do and I want some F-ing answers. In addition to doing this in the regular fashion I mixed up a teaspoon of baking soda to raise blood pH. This session went on and on and I kept saying the above issue and or questions. Eventually I was at a very nice warm peaceful place and heard or felt the following:

-Your questions have no meaning here.
-There really is nothing wrong
-Trading results are symptoms of other issues; you are playing games with feelings when you trade
-You might try riding winners and cutting losers
-You might want to consider working on relationships

I am not sure if this is what I expected, but I felt really nice and peaceful after this session. If you are agreeable, I will report back again as I consider your reply and my Breathwork.

Thank you for your TTP work and the tools you share with us!

Warm Regards,

Thank you for sharing your process.
To Top of Page