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Feb 10, 2015

Tribe Report - Health and Participation


Two days before Tribe meeting I wake up sick. I let Chief know that I likely will not be able to make it to Tribe Meeting. Chief informs me that all kinds of forms show up at this point in TTP, and it may be a mechanism for avoiding Tribe. Chief suggests that if I decide to go to Tribe no matter what, the symptoms may go away. I decide to go to Tribe no matter what, the symptoms, start to subside. By the next day the symptoms are mostly gone. I make it to Tribe.

I am sure that I will be in Hot Seat with Avoidance as my entry point. It seems that I am the only one who does not get on the hot seat (although in truth I am not the only one.) I gain a lot from this Tribe meeting as all the other members' issues are relevant to me.

The first process is Rocks Process. I play the role of Philandering / Porn addicted Grandfather. In Role play my daughter and grandchildren come to discuss feelings about my sexcapades and how they affect the family. In my role I am unfeeling, unrepentant, and unwilling to take others feelings into account. We acknowledge these facts. When my daughter expressed love for me, I suddenly start feeling. I feel like an asshole, I tell my daughter and grandchildren about these feelings.

This rocks process helps me see how my own porn usage affects my interactions with people in my life. The actresses and models have no feelings to consider. It is both "Safe" to "interact" with them without considering their feelings, and "interacting" with them, desensitizes me to the feelings of real life people. Fantasy bleeds into reality…..

Another Tribe member works on letting go of Control. I can relate to his fear about letting go.

I look forward to the next Tribe meeting.

Thank you for sharing your process and for documenting the meeting.

In Personal Life ...

... as in the Economy

health runs with participation

Feb 10, 2015

PR Tribe Report - Calmer


Check in goes quickly. We begin a rocks process. Hot seat gets really hot. He has willingness to experience some very intense and powerful feelings that arise from experiencing and observing abuse. The hot seat knows the time and place where the feeling originates.

PM is able to help him isolate additional details about his mother, father, siblings and maternal grandfather that set context for his experience. PM checks for willingness and organizes role play.

I find that I volunteer to play a role that I am initially very afraid to embrace.

Role play begins. I am hot seat's older brother. I am receiving a "Christian spanking" from my mother because she has caught me with pornographic magazines. Our mother administers the spanking with a paddle. She scolds me angrily and the beating escalates beyond any beating I have experienced before. I cry out in pain, expecting the usual end to the beating. It continues and increases in intensity. I cry out in severe pain, then in anger, then in desperation, then in exhaustion and surrender and finally, utter despair and defeat as it continues relentlessly.

The beating continues until something like a twitch reflex happens in me and I find enough will to I push her away and make my escape.

My younger brother (hot seat) father (representing all of our siblings), our maternal grandfather and an older brother (played by other tribe members) are all somehow aware of the beating and let it happen.

PM stops the role play to check for accuracy.
Hot seat confirms it is accurate. PM suggests a forgiving process.

A rock is forgiven by Hot seat to our father. The rock is "Stay out of her way, it will pass. You don't want to get into it with her...".

PM gives heart rock to hot seat and explains how it works.

We replay the scene.

The beating starts and this time, hot seat enters the room soon after I am screaming in real pain.

As he enters the room, he interrupts by approaching us and saying "Mom,. I need to tell you that I am afraid right now. I'm really afraid but I need to ask you how you are feeling." When I look up I see him standing upright arms open, making eye contact with our mother.

She respondents with accusatory questions. Her posture is guarded, arms crossed. Hot seat tells her that he is afraid and asks how she is feeling again. She says something about being upset and not wanting to talk to us and then runs away.

PM (I think) encourages hot seat to continue maintaining rapport and to follow her.

Hot seat leads us to her room and tries to maintain rapport. He asks what she is feeling again.

After a few passes Mom is able to share that she feels tremendous pressure in her role as our mom, and she also feels pressure to not look bad in the community. She is embarrassed by the porn and by what people at church and in the community will think of her and our family if they find out. She is not willing to feel shame and embarrassment or pressure.

Mom shares her feelings about being embarrassed by our grandfather's philandering and porn and how bad she feels about it.

Hot seat thanks her for sharing how she feels and things seem to calm down a lot.

PM suggests that we all approach our grandfather to tell him how we feel and ask how he feels. Mom does not want to go alone. Hot seat leads us to our grandfather and tells him how Mom feels.

He shares that he does not think it is our business and does not care what we think of him.

We thank him and tell him how we feel. Mom tells him that she does not understand him but that she loves him. When he responds, he tells us more but this time he feels different about how what he does impacts us. He feels "like a heel" for not considering others and how he goes about doing what he does.

The energy shifts.
We check out in role, then as ourselves.

As I recall our checkout, I find I remember that Hot seat looks different. I think he appears to be floating and somehow emancipated. There is a different lightness at the edges of his eyes.
He appears to be looking further away, beyond the room but he is still engaged and present.

I learn a lot from my role, the other's roles and the Hot seat's process.
It influences my experience of the next Hot seats, including my own hot seat where I find out about and finally experience <really sad. don't know what's going to happen>​.

Each hot seat, PM and the rest of the tribe seem to be doing work for all of the members of the tribe. Everyone contributes.

I feel very supported when I am on the Hot seat and in our system lab meeting the following day.

The next morning, I notice we drum to begin our system lab meeting and hope that we'll have some TTP work to do.

Sure enough after hardball process, we revisit a Tribe member's hot seat and have role play about parenting. PM has asked for a detailed account which I will provide if another member does not post one.

The role play seems to really help the hot seat understand his options.

As we are wrapping up, yesterday's Rocks process Hot seat wants to keep the meeting going. He wants to ask us what we feel he wants to do. We have many rounds of feedback and sharing of feelings as they relate to flying without instruments, navigating with no map, staying in the now and going through life with a blank instrument panel, free to iterate and be.

I relate to this "no expectations, just being" and find that it is somehow congruent with having purpose. Purpose is sufficient. Just fly the plane.

I feel really happy that I am part of this amazing group and grateful for everyone's effort and commitment.

I return to my home city. People start telling me something is different, that I'm calmer and more centered.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your process and for documenting the meeting.
Feb 10, 2015

Tribe Report - Motivation

Ed (and Sydney Trading Tribe),

Thank you for your support with my workshop follow up. Thanks to those who provide such useful comments and feedback.

I commit to:

"Work hard on my trading systems for three hours a day: See what feelings come up. Report, originally monthly, now every three months to my support team and FAQ." This starts from Ed's comment at the workshop - approximately "Are you actually serious about trading?"

* I average just over 3 hours per day on my trading systems for the last three months and almost exactly 3 hours per day (3.01 hours) since the workshop. I did not make the Xmas deadline so my two former tribe members shared a feast with me at a Greek Restaurant. I have a similar commitment for 31 March 2015 for three of my Sydney Tribe members.

I found some unnecessary complexity in my trading system which I could remove and I took it out. I am now down to 5,000 lines of code. I am systematically working through the testing. I doubt it will make it by 31 March but probably shortly after that.

I am doing my 3 hours in the form of Pomodoros, which makes for more productive and more intense work, and more exhausting! I read that you can only really work at maximum mental intensity for about 304 hours a day (See eg "A Mind for Numbers").

* Health. I have a long standing problem with high levels of the stress hormone cortisol. I am typically about 60% above the high end of the very wide normal range. This wreaks all sorts of havoc on mind and body. The cause is not known, as it often the case, and no good treatments exist. In addition, in recent years, post 2001, my testosterone levels have been falling rapidly (a 50% fall since then), perhaps due to the cortisol problem. Cortisol inhibits the release of testosterone in multiple ways, interferes with its effectiveness, and acts in an opposite way to testosterone, negating its effects. The main physical impact of the lost testosterone levels has been in reducing my bone density and strength, loss of lean body mass, and difficulty losing fat. And low testosterone levels causes a lack of energy, drive, determination, and resilience. The high cortisol also causes high levels of anxiety, risk aversion, sleep difficulties, lack of confidence, even depression, weakened immune system, and can attack your eyes, as it has in my case, resulting in functional blindness in my left eye.

I have now been able to deal with the low testosterone levels via a local medical clinic and this has made a tremendous difference both physically and mentally. Experiencing this change, I now realize why I had to take such extreme measures to motivate myself in the past. Now, I wake up thinking "Let's get into it!!!!!". I stress this is just restoring my body to normal levels. The amounts I am taking are perhaps 10% of what a body builder might take.

Maybe all this to some extent explains my relative lack of motivation and drive at the workshop, at which Ed made the comment "Are you actually serious about trading?". For a long time I used motivational techniques and coffee to make up for my lack of intrinsic motivation.

* My other activities are going pretty well. The local tribe is going well with 8 members now with several lives turned around. Some great hot seats which I have reported to FAQ. Progress with physics is good. I have adopted the approach from the book "A Mind for Numbers" which has produced leaps in understanding. I am still reading lots of text books for general knowledge (mainly medical text books recently) and reading the ancient Greeks. Aristotle is a bit dry but I am getting through it. I extended my reading program on the Greeks so it will take a little longer than planned. That is fine. It can take as long as it needs to.

Next report 10th *May* 2015 - in three months. I plan to continue my reports at this lower frequency until I have either started trading futures or I have given up. My reports now span over a year. I find doing them very helpful, but if anyone doesn't want to receive them please let me know. I appreciate your receiving me.


Thank you for sharing your process.

People who set up to do things they don't really want to do sometimes resort to methods, like: timers, prizes, penalties and drugs.

You might consider taking your feelings about <having to please your parents> to Tribe.

You Can Teach Your Child
that he has to work harder

or you can share
your own joy of learning.
Feb 9, 2015

Govopoly Metrics

Hello Mr Seykota!

Your book 'Govoploy in the 39th day' was very interesting and refreshing to read. And even though the subject of assimilation is saddening, I was honestly relieved to find your explanations (and graphs) for many of my 'something is not right' feelings. Thank you.

If possible I would also like to ask for some guidance. I am currently working on a trend following system using MATLAB and would like to compare moving averages to historical data according to your method of using a performance index that rewards profit and penalizes volatility (Govopoly 39th day, page 310).

To calculate the volatility of say a Simple Moving Average, I calculate its standard deviation. However I am stuck in coming up with a good way to calculate a profit for moving average. Do you have any recommendations?

Best regards

Thank you for raising this issue.

You might consider using an objective function of the form:


CAGR - Compounding Annual Growth Rate (%/year)
DD - Largest Drawdown (%)
OF - Objective Function (1/year)

OF, then, tells you how often you earn back your biggest drawdown.

You can come up with your own definition for OF, depending on your own risk, reward and other preferences.

For more on this, see the Trading System Project (TSP) at Resources, above.

Feb 9, 2015

PR Tribe Report - Domestic Violence


I arrive at the airport. The security checkpoint is easy today. Enter. Exit. No hassles.

The boarding gate is unusually busy. The airplane is larger than usual. I re-check my electronic boarding pass. Seat 5D. I prefer front-middle over back-aisle.

The boarding process is normal. Everyone seems relaxed in the boarding line."Sir, we have a new boarding pass for you. We have a different plane so you have a new seat assignment." I scan the boarding pass while continuing on. Seat 34D. Bummer. I am happy it's an aisle seat but think I may soon feel like a rudder.

Malfunction indicator light in cockpit. Un-board. New gate. New plane. Two plus hour delay. I stay relaxed. I know the drill.

Another boarding process. "Sir, here is your new boarding pass. We have a different plane and different seating configuration." Seat 9D. I feel like a ping pong ball. I am happy I am in the front, not likely to suffer the whipsaw of the far back of the plane.

New ETA for San Juan 4:30. Meeting starts at 5:00. I feel squeezed. I send email to update the Chief. I hope he checks his email.

Cruise flight is smooth. I finish re-reading The Trading Tribe. I have time remaining and choose the movie Whiplash to watch on the plane's personal video screen.

This movie is getting really intense! The promising drummer is scrambling to make the jazz competition. The stop at nothing instructor said to the band members, "Don't be late. If you're late, you're finished." Events seem to conspire against him. Problems with the city bus. He scrambles to rent a car, leaves his sheet music behind and speeds to the competition. He scrambles back to retrieve his sheet music. While recklessly driving back a truck broadsides him. Bloody, he crawls out of overturned car and runs with drum sticks in hand to take the seat at the drums just in time to start. Injured hand he starts drumming. He can't continue. Yet he still does. Exhausted and in pain, he stops. The competition is over for the band. The instructor looks at him in disgust as he tells him he is finished. The young drummer bull rushes the instructor and tackles him on stage screaming and yelling at him.

The plane has just landed a few moments earlier and the video screen goes blank. Seriously?! Is this really happening?!

I have twenty minutes to get to the tribe meeting. I cannot believe I chose the movie Whiplash to watch. Somehow I have got to get this out of my mind before the tribe meeting. No time for that. Just get into the flow of the current situation. This seems to help.

Un-boarding is quick. The taxi line is not.

I arrive and everyone is already picking their drums. I ask the Chief if he received my email. "Yes. I ignored it, I knew you would be here", he responds. I grab a drum and drum stick, sit down and we start drumming. The tribesman near me starts drumming like a madman.

Check in seems like a blur.

The Chief asks for issues and I immediately flag him. I blurt something out, the exact words I don't can't recall. More issues were raised, I can't recall them.

The Chief is back to me and asking for the problem. "So how is that a problem? Your brother's voice in your head bothers you. It doesn't bother me", he says. Things just escalated and I begin my internal lock-down mode.

The process continues and the tribesman sitting next to me moves to add space between us. I am now aware of everything in the room. Though this time it feels different. The process continues and at some point I am encouraged to clench my jaw. I do and it feels good. I feel my jaw muscle pulsating as I continue clamping down. I close my eyes and continue to clench my jaw. I hear encouragement from the tribe, but I feel it more. My jaw begins to ache as I continue to clench it. I begin intensely rubbing my temples. I do this for a while and then move to the top of my forehead. I feel their encouragement. I feel the immense pressure of my fingertips on my temples and forehead. I am sitting on the edge of my bed. Slumped over. Head in hands. Listening to everything unfold in the bedroom below me. I am terrified. I am angry. I hear the spanking escalate. I hear my mother. I hear my brother. My anger builds. I want her to stop spanking him.

Suddenly, I explode and scream out everything I wanted to scream back then.

The sound deafening. The energy release cleansing. My throat immediately feels scratchy.

The chief identifies the shutdown rock. "Who taught you how to sit there and take it?"

My older brothers and sisters provided me with the rock for these times. The strategy was the safe play at the time. Sit. Hope. Emerge. Sit quietly in your room. Hope the storm passes soon. Emerge only when it's safe to come out.

Another Tribesman role plays and represents all my brothers and sisters. He gives me the rock and tells me how to use it properly. I recall receiving the rock in a similar fashion from my siblings. I no longer want the rock. I want to fore-give the rock. I need to fore-give the rock to my brother. I want something different for myself. It is hard for me to fore-give the rock. My brother is no longer with us. The rock is in my hand and my arm is shaking as I attempt to hand it back. The chief tells me I can keep it. I don't want to keep it. I lack the words and skill to fore-give it. The Chief provides guidance on the words to say. I follow his guidance as best I can.

The words he uses to guide me never invalidate my brother. I just want a pro-active rock, a pro-active response. I am able to fore-give the rock. I sense my brother is reluctant to take it back. When he does he says he will hold it for me if I ever want it back. I sense he really hopes my new rock works better. I sense he is aligned with me and hoping for something better for me.

A re-placement heart rock is provided. I have a new pro-active resource. We role play the situation with the new resource. I am able to interrupt the process. The new resource feels different and somehow works. I trust it and continue using it. The situation unfolds differently and my mom, brother and I find ourselves sending and receiving our feelings with her dad. This feels strange and comforting at the same time. My grandfather has been gone a long time.

We check out. I check out feeling low-seismic earthquake waves throughout my body. I feel energetic and xhausted.

I was unable to locate this rock by myself. I was unable to fore-give it by myself. Thank you Chief. Thank you tribe.

P.S. On the plane ride home I was listening to an old favorite song I recently downloaded. "On the Turning Away".

Thank you for sharing your process.

What She Does

doesn't hurt him
as much as

what she doesn't say.

Feb 9, 2015

PR Tribe Report - From Control to Intimacy

Hi Ed,

For several days an event bothered me and i explain it to the Tribe, it was interesting to see the direction that took the process. I thought the issue was other, and eventually were another things, such as "controlling, and not accept things as they really are," I developed a couple of forms where the Tribe support to continue and feel the feeling. I learned that the issue of control and not start things dominate many aspects of my life (I repeat that pattern again and again). Was enriching realize this. Something happened to me, i start the paper & old project. Thanks to the Tribe, and Ed for all the suggestions you gave me during the process.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Feb 9, 2015

PR Tribe Meeting Report

Dear Chief,

I learn more about myself and others at our last meeting. I feel a strong connection with each of our tribe members throughout the two day period we spend together and after.

I learn that after a rocks process or hot seat I feel disoriented and free to choose a path.


I hear other tribe members share similar feelings expressed differently.

I will follow up with additional reports on some of the processes in subsequent FAQ updates.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Feb 8, 2015



Per my Tribe project to form a band and come up with a sound, I have a sample to share. So far we have a rough sketch with two guitar and two banjo tracks, awaiting bass, drums, ukulele and vocals. Right-click to open in another window. Lyin' Eyes by the Eagles
Thank you for sending me the mp3 file.

You can't hide your lyin' eyes
And your smile is a thin disguise.
I thought by now you'd realize
There ain't no way to hide your lyin' eyes.

by Don Henley and Glenn Frey

For the original, circa 1977, see
Feb 8, 2015

PR Tribe Report - Instant Change in the Kids

Dear Chief,

It works!

I am literally in a state of minor shock, amazement and happy bliss all day long as I watch my sons interact today.

Although I participate in Tribe work for over a decade now, I am still amazed at how well and quickly things can turn around if applied effectively. After months of fussing between me and my sons, things could not be any better today. I know that you, Ed, are probably not surprised at all and some of the FAQ readers may think this is too good to be true – nevertheless it is what is happening. Although what is happening is a bit different from what the Tribe anticipates – a lot of positive is occurring (details below).

The issue I work on during the Puerto Rico Trading Tribe meeting is a drama in my family dynamics between me and my two sons.

The dynamics works like this. My 9 year old son likes to read and hang out on his iPad sitting or lying on a couch. My 3 year old likes to come by and bug him. The 3-year old likes to play rough. He usually ends up crawling all over the 9 year old jumping on him, scratching him, hitting him – having good old time. The 9-year old whines the whole time. I am often on a computer doing some work and while I listen to all that start getting frustrated. At some point I can't take it anymore and jump out of my chair yelling at both boys. I grab the 3-year old and take him to his room for a time-out. To this he reacts by starting to cry even kick his legs and scream at me. Then I yell at the older son telling him to man up and stop whining. I tell him that he just has to find a way to get along with his little brother who doesn't know any better yet. I explain to him that although his little brother is cruel to him, he can't fight back. I want him to just find a way to get along with his little brother, to somehow explain to him to leave him alone. This is of course to no use – ever.

After I bring this issue to the tribe and Ed stops laughing (all in good spirits) we start the work. Ed suggests that I am attempting to control the dynamics between my sons and I have no business attempting to control it. He suggests that I need to get out of the way, to which I resist greatly. I argue that if I leave them to their own solutions, once the 3 year old start hurting the 9-year old, the 9-year old can hurt the 3 year old in retaliation – easily. I am truly worried that one of them can get hurt – I sweat, I fantasize about one of them getting hurt and have all kinds of guilt feelings associated with it.

We go back and forth and with Ed's skillful help and the help of the Tribe, role playing and developing forms and a lot of support I get it, feel it, and understand it.

Although it takes me a while, at the end I see that my attempts to control my sons are actually futile attempts to run their life. I learn that by not letting my 9 year old protect himself as he sees fit I am teaching him exactly that – not to protect himself, always look for help, play a victim and be a victim. I am also teaching my 3 year old son that he can run around hurting people and there are no consequences to it.

Once I arrive home I follow the script, the new resource, I got from Ed and the Tribe to deal with the issue.

First, I talk to my wife and she understands instantly. She shares with me that she is also worried the older one can hurt the younger one if we let them to their own devices. She would like to set some ground rules of what the 9 year old can do, however, at the end we don't.

Second, I get both boys together and inform them that I am tired of listening to them fight and from now on the older one can protect himself with any means necessary. I let the 9 year old know that he won't get in trouble, even if he hurts the 3-year old.

What follows is priceless! If you could only see the faces of those two angels! Ha, ha! The older one looking at me in a disbelief having an ever so slight smile in his face and the younger one with a look of disbelief as well. You could see him measuring his big brother up!

The attack of the 3 year old started almost instantly, however the difference was obvious from the get go. No whining from the 9-year old ever.

Every little attack of his little brother skillfully and with almost gentleman like force he let him feel twice! It was amazing! They both enjoyed tangling with each other like young bucks engaged in simple play of seeing who the stronger one is.

The 3-year old understood quickly after his 9-year old brother let him feel the pain by twisting his arms and handling him like a doll.

After a short while the younger one just went to play Lego's, leaving his big brother alone. They both looked happy the whole day. They would play together in the driveway and racing their scooters down the road. The older son seemed happier than usual…confident. He would look straight into my eyes several times today while telling me something – almost felt like he was thankful for me believing in him. I was overwhelmed by joy to see him like that. Yet, all this was not at an expense of the younger one. Quite the opposite.

After months of struggling with the younger one to potty train – today was the first day he wears underwear and goes to the toilet several times! He would not have any of that ever! It almost seems like that by making excuses for him, that he doesn't know what he is doing yet while beating up his older brother, I was stopping him from growing up in other areas as well.

I am truly thankful to you Ed and the PR Tribe.


Thank you for sharing your process, for documenting the meeting and for following through on implementing your insights.


can turn puppies into tyrants

and big dogs into victims.

Feb 8, 2015

Intimate Fantasy

Dear Ed,

I want to share a fantasy with you.

I call my fantasy "Intimate Play". I envision Intimate Play as occurring when two people sit down together with the intention of intimate sharing, whatever form that may take.

I envision sharing feelings, fantasies, images, and desires, both those that are present from the beginning of the exchange and those that may arise during the process.

I envision sensual connection and touch, with sexuality perhaps present in terms of feelings and perhaps optional in terms of actions. Everything that occurs does so with the consent of both parties, and the words "Let's stop" carry ultimate authority.

I envision this as an expedition, for both participants, into the unknown areas of their consciousness and their connection with their bodies as well as the consciousness and the body of "the other".

In my particular fantasy, I envision the expedition taking place with someone of the opposite sex, but I don't see any reason why it can't be an exchange between any two humans for the purpose of growth. It could even be expanded to include a third participant, depending upon the desires of the two.

I envision couples, even those who think they know each other well, discovering new aspects of their partner's world. The key for couples would be the willingness to receive and not to personalize the revelations. Quite a challenge.

I give voice to my fantasy in order to increase the likelihood that I will bring it into my real life. I feel fear and excitement as two sides of the same coin: venturing into the unknown without the comfort of a map.

I will not hold back or give up, though I may well stumble a few times and feel confusion about where "the line" is drawn.

This is the only life I have to work with!

Thank you for sharing your process and your fantasy.

You might find similar connections during a Tribe meeting, except that we do not engage in intimate or sexual touching.

Individual Tribe members report taking the process "all the way" later, in the privacy of their own homes. They typically report achieving much deeper and more intimate connections.
Feb 7, 2015

Tribe Report - Circling Around


Thank you for your guidance.

I explore my feelings about <circling around issues> and <imprecision> with the help of my Tribe, as an entry point. We link this to the relatively vague FAQ post I make, to which you suggest taking my feelings about <mastering the math> to Tribe.

At first, I feel perplexed by your response. I score extremely well on all math aptitude tests and even obtain the highest marks in my country on the high school math exam, but on the other hand, I realize that I begin to lose interest in the subject during university studies (even though I major in Electrical Engineering).

I realize that the issue around <mastering the math> may be in my "blind spot" and the tribe encourages me to explore this. I also recall finding it very difficult to thoroughly back-test trading systems.

It takes a while to find a clearly related issue in life, but we eventually link this to my work. Everything is going well financially and I enjoy my work … but … I still don't know exactly where I want to focus. I feel like I don't really know what I want. I am not truly committing to anything, even though I know (in my CM) that this is essential to Right Livelihood.

The Tribe picks up on my incipient forms and we're off! With my eyes closed and relentless encouragement from the Tribe, I find myself journeying through images of the different areas I might focus on in my work - from blah blah blah and fluffy impressions to serene, tranquil, disciplined, almost "ascetic" visions that feel true.

The Tribe encourages me to explore this polarity and my forms go from shaking my head to deeply shrugging my shoulders (the Tribe suggests freezing at the peak of this form and exploring a formative event, but I don't recall one) - to a deep feeling in my stomach which I label as guilt. Everything mixes together and soon I get off my seat and start running around a circular path with my arms flung wide open. There is a part of me which wants to move to the center of the circle but I just can't. Some invisible force feels like its holding me away. Eventually I get very dizzy and collapse against one of the walls. My arms are now moving up and outwards and then falling back against my legs. Then I feel the deep feeling of guilt in my stomach again … and repeat.

The process continues until suddenly, I recall feeling ridiculed by my father. I cannot place the exact event but sense that this happens a number of times growing up. I recall some math related discussions as well and feel like I am not taken seriously or acknowledged.

I mention this to my Tribe while I'm still in the middle of some forms - and they encourage me to stick with the forms. I continue and eventually begin to chuckle insightfully and start nodding my head up and down. At one stage … I stop and feel like I'm ready to jump into the center of the (virtual) circle which I had been running around.

I am still leaning against a wall with my back to it. I open my eyes, and take a big jump away to find myself in the center of the (virtual) circle. New forms emerge which include shaking, shivering, and moving my body torsionally, but at the same time, I find that I'm able stand my ground in the center.

The Tribe continues their encouragement, although a bit muted now, and I continue to move, shake, and shiver while standing firmly in the center … until the forms begin to subside.

I end up standing peacefully, at the center of the circle, without a thought. The tribe asks if I might want to re-integrate, but I don't feel like there is much energy left in my forms, so decline. We check out.

We engage in a conversation during the break and I find remarkable clarity on what I want, on Right Livelihood, and most everything we talk about. I experience a state filled with certainty and without any doubt. The Tribe members suggest that I take this new found clarity to finish documenting my trading system and share back within one week.

I feel like I am ready to do so. I also intend to complete the back-testing associated with the Trading Project I commence during the 2013 Workshop in Austin.

Thank you for sharing your process.
Feb 7, 2015

Growing Tribe

Hi Chief,

While you are enjoying your fame and skill not worrying about supply of Tribe members, I find myself trying best to connect with people and prospective members, to make the next meeting happen. The same feelings of not knowing where the next meal is. :-)

Now after the meeting with some new members, I enjoy the wisdom of your work and a growing tribe.

Thank you for the art,

Thank you for sharing your process.
Feb 4, 2015

Average Results

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I first came to know you and your philosophy on the trend following strategy for the market from your interview in the book "Interview with the top trader". Immediately, I felt resonance with it. I was a physicist and the idea of using attraction and repulsion to describe fluctuation is deeply in my mind. I've been thinking about the application in financial market and now I think I found a good entry point.

I was excited to find the website you created for Trading System Project. Currently I am working on a program to find optimal parameters for risk factor, short and long window. I've reproduced some of your results in the simple exponential moving average system. However, there is something unclear to me on the ATR - average true range, and I hope to get some help from you.

My understanding, as you said in the tech doc, is TR = maximum of following three between two closes,

1. high - low
2. high - yesterday close
3. yesterday close - low

Then one takes moving average of the time series to get ATR.

This seems to disagree with the metric log (like, ).
The first two entries:

82-04-21-W Eq=1000000.00 OHLC:[ 116.35 117.60 116.05 117.45 ] slow=117.450 fast=117.450 Atr=1.550
82-04-22-H Eq=1000000.00 OHLC:[ 117.00 118.40 117.00 117.90 ] slow=117.453 fast=117.460 Atr=1.536 +

The TR for day two is actually 1.40. Then ATR is (1.55+1.4)/2=1.475. I must've missed something here. Could you please shed some light on it?

Thanks a lot.

Best Regards,

Thank you for raising this issue.

You might consider computing it again with an ten-day average (per the text) rather than with a two-day average.
Feb 4, 2015

Shovels Full

Dear Ed,

when I see the strong price movements in oil in the last year, I think
of you and hope that you are riding the trend and making loads of money.

Best regards,

Thank you for sharing your observations and for your support.

Shoveling Money

typically precedes

digging yourself into a hole.

Feb 4, 2015

Blue Danube


You might like this:
Thank you for sending me the link.
Feb 4, 2015



I wake up this morning with the Fibonacci Sequence in my head and link 38% & 62% to the typical win loss ratio of a good trend following strategy.

I wonder if you read Benoit Mandelbrot's work on the (Mis)behaviour of the Markets. His views on Long Range Dependence and Volatility Clustering seem to align well with deploying trend following strategies to capture these "inefficiencies."

Our tribe is strong with four members regularly attending meetings every three weeks.

Thank you for sharing your process.

I wonder how you figure a "good" system has a win-loss ratio of 38/62.

I wonder how you figure Long Range Dependence and Volatility Clustering "align" well with trend trading.

You might consider taking your feelings about <mastering the math> to Tribe.

Fibonacci and the Nautilus

fit worse than they oughtilus.

Feb 3, 2015

More Substance Experiment

Hi Ed,

From your picture I gather you think I use a downer but I use an upper.

I feel a bit down when I connect your reply to myself. I guess I do see you as kind of a father figure in that I can learn a trade from you. Mainly dealing with wizardry mixed with a method to make myself useful to my Tribe.

Thanks for reading/connecting,

Thank you for sharing your process.

You might consider taking your feelings about <wanting your father to notice you> to Tribe as an entry point.

Some Substances
support proactive behavior.

Other substances
make reality go away

for a while.

Feb 3, 2015

Substance Experiment

Good evening Ed,

Thanks for replying to my emails Ed.

This past weekend I experiment with a substance that allows me to feel really accepting and encouraging towards others and allow me to be myself in an open and positive way.

The downside comes at the expense of needing days to recuperate and I'm sure some rebalancing of the brain. I wonder if I can acheive this state of euphoric empathic feeling and connectedness in a safer more natural method. I can sense people's energy. And I feel the need to take care of others, I feel the need to have fun, to enjoy the company of others, to accept how they would like to individually express themselves and to encourage them.

As I type this I lie down wih my stomach to my bed while shaking my left foot, which hangs off the bed. Then I think I better I pull up my feet to my bed.

I wonder if one can move towards freedom through self expression in this method. I would love to hear your comments on such a thing.

For one of a few times in my life I love where I stand. As soon as this happens in the following days I begin to think about how I can make this situation last, now that I appreciate what I have. I worry that "because" I enjoy it I must leave. I would like to enjoy each situation I encounter. Also I would like to enjoy it with people that matter to me such as my family. I guess enjoy things so much that I want to keep enjoying it with the same people. I want to enjoy what I have with my tribe and I would like to stay. Sometimes I get the feeling / though that I dont want to enjoy things situations without my Tribe. I dont want to see envy because I want my tribe members to enjoy what I enjoy. If I go out on a hunt and I get a kill I want to share that with my Tribe members especially my elders. Since they have done that for me when I was younger and useless. Not only that but they let me enjoy on the fun also and look out for me.

I feel tear drops slidedown my face and hear it drip on the pillow.

Thanks for listening.

Its the feeling of hiking a mountain with your sibling and your father but your father cannot climb as you can. And you have to go up the mountain him. And you want to share the view with him. I want him to share the expreience with us his kids. But he has to go back down. And there exists a silent stillness among the kids as we leave him to get picked up by a ranger. We make sure he has enough water and we make sure he has his flashlight. But the stillness still prevades. "Its ok, you go on ahead, daddy cape (is tired). I love you."

We check up on him until we no longer see the flashlight.

I find the climb difficult. My sister finds the decent really difficult. She needs our help. He would not have made it up. We think back on the hard decision to leave himbut that we can all appreciate. We all live to see another day.

I dont know where that came from.

Thank you Chief,

Thank you for sharing your process.

You might consider taking your feelings about <wanting your father to notice you> to Tribe as an entry point.

Some Substances
support proactive behavior.

Other substances
make reality go away

for a while.

Feb 3, 2015


Dear Ed,

Our brains contain structures called "mirror neurons" that have the capacity to respond to signals from others - for example, when another person smiles at us we experience an instinct to smile back.

This is a response that has survival value in that it fosters connection between people (and, conversely, it facilitates defense when encountering aggression).

Your Tribe member who works on becoming more authentic by not adopting a "fake" smile may be fighting a natural and healthy instinctual signal from his body.

I believe that a brief moment of discernment in every encounter can quickly determine whether I am trying to hide my true feelings or perhaps just being human.

When I imagine smiling at a stranger in the grocery store and receiving an impassive stare in return, I feel instinctively wary, even rebuffed.

Could be my problem, or it could be human nature!

Thank you for raising this issue.

In Tribe, we practice "receiving without sending" in order to coax out and to experience our natural tendencies, say, to smile a lot.

For example, say someone smiles at you in the grocery store and you, quite normally and naturally, smile back.

Most people consider this quite normal and, indeed, rely on it to determine the risk of associating with a stranger.

In TTP, we celebrate this process and also deal with some of the exceptions to the rule.

Say someone smiles at you in the grocery store and you can tell they want to sell you something or take you home for the night. In these cases, smiling back automatically might send a message of willingness that leads to complications.

Say someone breaks an agreement with you and you smile back at them, signaling you do not mind at all - and that they may continue disappointing you.

Say you cannot help smiling at people all the time, and that you find you have a Smiley Rock that you pick up as a child from your mother as a futile attempt to get approval from your father.

In TTP we aim to locate these kinds of cases and deal with them - and then get back to the business of smiling normally, in passing, to other people in the grocery store.

Feb 2. 2015


Dear Chief,

I have a sadness issue I want to work on.

It is very painful and has started to emerge in sudden and intense waves since I begin to work on more obvious issues that come up while working towards goals. I notice that as I feel less anger, impatience and engage in less medicinal behavior there is this reservoir of sad.

An interaction with my six year old daughter provides the most recent catalyst for <sad>. It is a day after our interaction when I finally have willingness to feel the feeling and it kicks in.

This weekend, my daughter experiences her feelings of sadness, worry, ​fear of missing out and loss related to having divorced parents. Her process includes suffering, trying to suppress her feelings followed by an outpouring of sadness.

I share the "tell me what you are feeling" exercise with her. We take turns. She begins to feel better. I notice that her process seems to shift the most when I share my feelings and she then shares her feelings. I point this out to her as I continue sharing my feelings when it's my turn. We connect and things seem to be accessible to her from a different point of view.

We continue the exercise and I notice that when she thanks me after I share. She is now completely calm and says " thank you for talking with me daddy" and "thank you for teaching this to me". ​

I drop my daughter off at her mom's on Sunday and will see her again after school on Monday.

This morning I discuss the issue my daughter is having and how it impacts our family with my wife. I feel very, very sad as I mentally relive her sadness and anguish. I am experiencing a deep feeling of sorrow. I worry that she will have the same intense mood swings and pain that I have had at times in my life. I feel helpless. I worry about her relationship with her mom and her step mom. I lose track of thought and just feel sorrow. I want everyone to be OK.

I feel sadness surging up. This feeling seems to emerge from my core. It's everywhere. The feeling envelopes the "you had a great childhood, what the f--k is your problem, a--hole" judge. It saturates me.

I find it difficult to even contemplate. The feelings are 100% familiar but have no context or specific story.

I start to tear up and cry for "no reason".

The feeling dissipates.

There is still some embarrassment and fear "why is this happening?", "what's wrong with me?".

I would like to work through this issue with our tribe.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your process.

You might consider taking your feelings about <wanting everyone to be OK> to Tribe.


signals a difference of opinion
about entitlement.
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