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Contributors Say Ed Says
November 28, 2019

Glass Test


I run some tests on bullet-proof glass with a 7.62x54R round (7.62 mm diameter x 54 mm length including including bullet and casing).

Bullet-Proof Glass

Thank you for sharing your experiment and for demonstrating the importance of back-testing before implementing.

You might consider testing with a 22-cal bullet.  If the glass does not stop a 22, try a wad of wet paper in the end of a straw.
November 28, 2019

Wants the Correct Understanding

Hi Ed, I looked over the Workshop syllabus and have a question.

I was wondering if during the workshop we go over trading strategies, risk management, back testing, mathematics, algorithmic trading, and bot trading?

It looks more like the Workshop is geared towards emotional mastery; which if I am using a bot to trade algorithmically, emotions wont come into play as set rules and guidelines will be in the place that the bot mindlessly follows.

I am wondering if I have the correct understanding of the Workshop.

Thank you!

Thank you for raising this issue.

I gather that you wonder if you have the correct understanding of the Workshop.

I gear the Workshop to the participants, most of whom find out about their deep issues during the Workshop.

I generally address specific questions about system design, trend detection, risk management, portfolio selection and optimization - as they arise during the Workshop.

I can also address your underlying assumption that a "bot" can somehow shield you from having to deal with your emotions.

More likely, as the equity in your account (ostensibly under dispassionate bot control) swings up and down, you may experience intense feelings such as hope, greed, fear and despair; you might even start to lose faith in your bot and resort to medicating these feelings by tinkering with it.  

In your particular case, say during a formidable drawdown, this might set in as you start to wonder if you have the "correct understanding" of your bot.

Your total trading system includes your math and also your character. You might consider running comprehensive back tests on both.

November 24, 2019

Risk Management - Wants the Right Way

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I have a question regarding moving the stop-loss closer to the entry price in order to reduce a position's entry risk.

Let's assume there is an open long position with the following specifications:

Entry Price: 82.00 $
Stop-Loss: 78.80 $
Quantity: 781 shares

It follows that this position carries an entry risk of 2499.20 $.

Now, if I'd like to reduce the position's entry risk down to an arbitrary number such as 1500.00 $, I can calculate the new stop-loss level like this:

NewStopLossLevel = EntryPrice - (DesiredEntryRisk / Quantity)
= 82.00 $ - (1500.00 $ / 781)
= 80.08 $

Et Voila! ... with the new stop-loss level the position's entry risk has been reduced to about 1500.00$.

Now let's assume a somewhat similar example where we've already added to this position once, so the position consists of two tranches:

1st Tranche:
Entry Price: 82.00 $
Quantity : 781 shares

2nd Tranche:
Entry Price: 83.50 $
Quantity : 330 shares

Stop-Loss on entire position: 78.80 $

The 1st tranche carries 2499.20 $ of entry risk (like in the previous example) -

the 2nd tranche carries 1551.00 $ of entry risk.

In total that's 4050.20 $ worth of entry risk for the entire position.

Again, I'd like to reduce the position's entry risk (to an arbitrary number such as 2000.00 $) by moving the stop-loss up.

I wonder how to calculate the new stop-loss level in cases like _this_, where the position consists of more than just one tranche.

Any insight you could share on this issue would be very much appreciated.

Best regards from Germany,

Thank you for raising this issue.

I gather you want to know the "right way" to consolidate stops for multiple entries.

In order to find the right way and "optimize" a method, you use an "objective function" or, as I call it, "bliss function" - a statement of the relative importance of the performance parameters.

For example you can mathematically define the relative importance of drawdown, volatility and profitability.  From there, you can look for some answers by back testing your system.  
You might consider beginning your search by looking within yourself.  

In my Workshops, I typically mark out a grid on the floor with tape. One axis represents risk tolerance and the other, profitability.  

I have participants walk around on the grid and share their experiences to help deepen their awareness of their own risk/reward preferences.

November 21, 2019

Struggling with The Rocks Process

Dear Ed,

Thank you very much for your reply to my last email and for catching my intentions which is learning about Rocks Process than experiencing it. You did a very good job. I cannot even imagine how you do that.

I noticed when I used Rocks Process last time, starting with recalling a past experience and a role model (rock donor), showed me a lot of my current drama. It caused me a lot of sorrow and anger towards the rock donor (My own mother). I also felt a deep urge to run away from the Rock Donor instead of forgive her. I do not know I am following the Rock Process right?

Now I am about to face a new situation that is very uncertain, and need a lot  tough decisions which cause a lot of feelings that I do not like to experience, I behave medicinally to compensate for those feelings. Eg- Go to massage parlors, place trades that are outside my system, watching pornography, asking questions, writing emails to Ed Seykota(😆)and so on.

I tried to use TTP to gain clarity over my decisions and to overcome my internal resistance to the situation at hand by experiencing the resistance.

I was trying use Rocks Process by recalling a childhood experience that made me uncomfortable and a role model from the past. However, now I am  not only unable to recall a past incidence, I also noticed a huge resistance building in me to go on the hot seat.

I do not know I am still trying to read and gain knowledge about the TTP rock process technology like the last time I wrote you few days ago. I was also cautious whether I am using the Rocks Process to compensate for the internal resistance.

I am trying to use the Rocks Process to act pro actively to my current situation at hand and avoid acting out my drama in this new situation that I have to deal with.

Please advise sir, I am completely ignorant at this point. What does your Tribe do when someone is faced with a client that is willing to go on the hot seat but has a lot of resistance?

Thanks you very much Ed, I love you so much.
Thank you for sharing your process.

I gather you wish to implement The Rocks Process on your own, as a DIM (Do It Myself) process.

The Rocks Process includes development of the issue, identification of the Rock Donor, role playing and implementation of the Heart Rock - methods generally available in a Tribe with considerable experience.

These explorations generally require considerable application of the "Healing Field of Acknowledgment" to assist the Client to negotiate his own ego-protection system.

In your case, I might guess you do not particularly fancy sadness and anger. I might also guess you medicate your feelings with dopamine-producing drama: rapid switching between pornography scenes; over-trading; relationship drama; rushing to make deadlines; anxiety; generic worry.

To experience TTP, you might consider signing up for the Workshop, above, via Resources.

November 18, 2019

Other Authors Trying to Stop Bernoulli Abuse

Dear Sir,

You might enjoy this paper.

Thank you for sending me the link.
November 15, 2019

English and Russian

hi Mr. Seykota. i think there arent vps servers during your famous intervue ,so you check  EMA lines every morning to find my opinion if i correctly understand it is optional challenge to it? 
Спасибо, что обратились ко мне.

Я не понимаю ваш английский.

Вы могли бы попросить, чтобы англоговорящий коллега исправил это немного и затем повторно отправил это.

- - - - -

Thank you for reaching out to me.

I do not understand your English.

You might consider asking an English-speaking colleague fix it up a bit and then re-send it.

November 14, 2019

TTP and Bupropion

Dear Ed,

Thank you for sharing the link on Bupropion side effects. During the tapering off project I notice a reduction in two side effects, a reduction in increased sweating and a slightly lowered blood pressure down from the border of moderately high to normal.

As for withdrawal symptoms, the only one I noticed was a sharp headache in the back of my head above my neck that was most noticeable when I lifted weights at the gym. This headache was mostly managed by implementing a slow tapering off program until there were no more headache.

However when I start the tapering off project I write down a few signs that I know once they come up its a sign (a trigger if you will) that its time to stop the project and conclude that the issue isn't handled using TTP techniques.

I trained my brother and parents in TTP so that when the feelings really start to amp up we can have family TTP sessions but it has no positive effect on my state of panic (fight or flight state).

One of the triggers is if the tapering off project starts effecting my performance at work negatively and I can't manage the intense feelings then it's time to stop. I was also not progressing with my vision of writing my own back testing scripts in python so there was really no point to carrying on.

I'm currently taking an on line python course about Classes, Objects and Methods as I feel my code will be more reusable if I know how to use Classes and Methods. I also start manual back testing and am currently riding my first real trend in a EUR/USD futures contract.

A question I have, If Fred always gets what he wants, how can the conscious mind ever get what it wants?

With thankfulness

Thank you for reporting on your experiments (under psychiatric supervision) with using TTP as a way to reduce the level of Bupropion during therapy.

In the TTP model, the conscious mind has no feelings so it also has no wants.  It has to operate with the subconscious (Fred) to identify desires.
November 12, 2019

Wants a Mentor

Hi Ed,

It's been more than five years I purchased your book The Trading Tribe. You shipped the book to my house in Brazil, I don't know if you remember that.

I recently moved to Winter Garden, Florida, with my wife and my two children.

I was very impressed when I read your interview in the book Market Wizards, it seemed that you were speaking directly to me, because many of my mistakes as a trader are strictly linked to the trading psychology.

I've been trading the markets for more than twelve years, but sometimes I am very compulsive while I am trading, which makes me lose a big part of the money I usually win when I follow my method.

The reason I am contacting you is to know if you would be able to be my mentor or my coach. Please don't get me wrong, I don't want you to teach me your trading methods. First, because I believe all the best traders in the world, including you, developed their own methods, so I am aware that, in order to be a professional trader, one has to develop his own method, even if it's based on other methods. Second, because I already have my method, following the trends and cutting very fast the losses.

I would need your help only in the psychological part of trading - which for me is the most important and also the most difficult aspect of trading.

I would pay your price for this service. And it also would be up to you the best way I could contact you - I would be satisfied even with one quick call once a week or once each 10 or 15 days, it would be up to you.

Thank you very much for your time.

Here is a picture from me and my family:


Thank you for reaching out to me about mentoring and for sending a photo of your family.

I don't know how to get you to resolution with  deep issues in a 15-minute, once-per-week format.  I suppose I coule give it a try. At my consulting rates (See Ground Rules, above) it might not turn out cost-effective for you.

You might consider writing to FAQ (free).

Alternatively, you might consider attending the upcoming TTP Workshop in Bastrop, Texas.

The Workshop now includes Charles Faulkner who has deep experience with inner work, including modeling and coaching traders.

Charles and I enjoy collaborating and we plan to work two-on-one with some of the attendees who step forward and volunteer to serve as examples. For more, see Workshops at Resources, above.

November 12, 2019

Tribe Meeting Report

Dear Sir,

Please find the Mumbai Tribe meeting report for our meeting of 7 November 2019 below.

With all Tribe Members present, we begin with drumming & proceed to check in.

Check In

TM1: He enjoys spending Diwali holidays with his parents & grandparents in his hometown &  is happy after gifting air purifier to his grandfather. He also has a “warm” conversation with his parents where he shares with them his feelings about their (his parents’) emotional patterns. TM1 shares that his father has not done well monetarily & tends to be very defensive and blame others for his issues. TM1 brings shares his observation with his father and also shares that his father's intentions are great but his reactions are due to patterns. He feels his father is beginning to introspect.

TM2: He has a few arguments with his mother after his mother wants to visit Dubai, but he (TM2) denies her request as ticket & accommodation prices in Dubai are very expensive. His relations with other family members are good. On the trading front, he is facing a drawdown.

TM3: His work front is going good, his system is also in steep drawdown. He last sees such a drawdown in 2014-15.

TM4: He is grateful to all of us for getting together and sharing our feelings with each other. After appearing for a few interviews, he has a job offer with a good raise. After sending his resignation, his current employer offers to match the raise. He feels confusion about whether to move to a new company or whether to continue with his current job. He wishes to take it to the hotseat.

TM5: He is rejuvenated after spending around 2 months with his son who lives in the USA. He feels frustration around his system not performing. He mentions one trade in particular where he is long, cuts his position after his system triggers a stop loss & the very next day the market rallies quite a bit. He says the only good thing is he maintains the discipline to follow the system.

TM6: I am happy to have a full house in Tribe. I bring an update about 2 projects. On one project, I am making progress with the developers. I have a snapshot around this project & wish to present it to the Tribe. On the 2nd project, I am seeing delays. One partner in that project is confused and delaying the project. I feel a lot of irritation around that project not taking off. On the trading front, I am able to cut losses quickly & adding to winning positions in a calm manner.

Hotseat 1

We feel that TM4 is the hottest and he takes the hotseat with TM1 as the PM.

PM begins with probing the HS about his confusion. HS starts stamping his feet. We cheer him on. PM freezes & checks for any thoughts, images or memories the HS may have. HS shares is worried about quitting and disappointing his mentors who are in his current firm. PM asks what does disappointing people you respect feel like. HS later starts rubbing his eyes & his head. The form evolves to HS rubbing his head and shaking it vigorously. PM freezes again and checks for thoughts or images or incidents, HS says he feels a stone on his head & he has an image of laborers carrying stones. We encourage him to feel the stone on his head. He feels like putting the stone down & rubbing his eyes. We encourage him to stay with his feelings. We notice him becoming calmer & the intensity dropping. He sits still for a while & elects to end the process.

HS Checkout

We all agree that this is a good process. TM2 notices a few signature forms of HS. I am worried about the process being medicinal & also worried about what your (Ed’s) thoughts might be about the process. HS humorously wonders if he has performed a Rocks Process by himself by setting the stone on his head down.

TM4 & TM6 leave after the HS.


I bring my Snapshot about a website to the Tribe. We revise some of the material on FAQ around conducting a Snapshot process.

I present my goal to the tribe and my ideas around achieving the goal.

Tribe Members question on what metric do I consider the goal achieved. I share the metric with them & they sign off on the metric. Tribe leader suggests I draw on a piece of paper how exactly I wish to view myself achieving the goal, timeliness to achieve the goal & the processes I plan on using to get there. I do the same.

The Tribe questions my numbers & assumptions behind the numbers. We go through several rounds & the Tribe signs off on my processes. 

TM3 questions my assumptions about the conversion percentages & believes that the number I wish to achieve in the first year may be difficult to achieve. Tribe agrees that while the idea and processes are robust, the target number is too optimistic and don't agree on the goal. I am revising my numbers & estimates to present the plan to the tribe in the next meeting.

After the Snapshot process, we elect to end the meeting.


Thank you for sharing your process and for documenting your Tribe Meeting.

Per TM4, you might consider the difference between "feel the stone on your head" and "great, go with it, crank it up, do more of that."

The former has the Process Manager objectifying the experience as a physical rock on the Client's head and then asking the Client to move out of his internal experience and into the objective reality of the Process Manager.

This effectively discharges the Client's internal energy and terminates the process.

The later has the Process Manager supporting the development of the Clients internal experience.  

This might then lead on to the Client gathering enough energy to engage the Rocks Process,
and then experience the emotional roots of his confusion and move on to commitment and resolve.

The balance of your meeting seems to follow a fairly standard protocol for a goal-setting session.

Your Tribe seems to favor an intellectual, business-like, medicinal and emotionally safe interpretation of TTP.

November 12, 2019

Fraud Alert

Hello Sir Ed Seykota I am asking you very much for your support. I found your profile on this site: 

You are listed on the list of famous people on the above website :)

Dear Sir, I am asking you very warmly for your support.

Do you use the Bitcoin Revolution App on a daily basis?

Have you not noticed any difficulties with paying remuneration from Bitcoin Revolution to a bank account or to a multi-currency card - e.g. Revolut - thanks to which we can keep BitCoin Cryptocurrency?

Can you show me how the live withdrawal from Bitcoin Revolution via webcam online works?
Dear Sir, in exchange for your support for Bitcoin Revolution - I will tell you what are the best products for health repair. I know companies that offer 100% health-safe health repair products. Please contact me, Sir Ed Seykota.
Thank you for raising this issue.

I have no connection with this site.

They have my photo on their site without my permission.

I do not endorse the site.

I advise caution dealing with this site.
November 12, 2019

Dopamine and Serotonin


In TTP Worksheet Information, you mention one of the things a person may want to work on is “replace dopamine addiction with serotonin preference”. If you don’t mind can you explain what that is and how you might go about doing that? 

Thank you for raising this issue.

Dopamine may associate with addictive behavior and entrain feelings of {thrill, conquest, novelty, excitement, etc.}.

Serotonin may associate with deep satisfaction and may entrain feeling of {security, family, community standing, etc.}.

In some cases we might apply TTP to replace medicinal-addictive behavior with proactive behavior.  In the process we might also expect a reduction in dopamine levels and a corresponding increase in serotonin levels.
November 12, 2019

W. D. Gann


I have read a lot of the FAQ’s, but not all, there are so many.  I would like to ask a question and if it has been ask already I apologize. Do you have any knowledge if  W. D. Gann was actually able to do what he said in predicting prices?  I read some say he was able to and then others say he wasn’t. Thanks for any knowledge you can shed on this.

Thank you for raising this issue.

I have no direct knowledge of W. D. Gann.  

I notice that people have a desire to predict the (non-existing) future; some solicit the services of fortune tellers, astrologers and economists.

Perhaps the W. D. Gann legend has to do with people projecting their wishes about peering ahead.
November 11, 2019


Hi Ed, 

September:  See New Page <-- This link is dead. You can revise it.

Best wishes,
Thank you for catching the bug.

November 11, 2019

Rocks Process

Dear Ed,

Thanks again for all of your replies to my previous questions.

I have a question with respect to your answer to the post; Tribe Meeting Report on August 30, 2019.

You stated " The Rocks Process continues by fore-giving (returning) the Rock to your mother, with love and appreciation, and against her resistance to reclaim it.

You may then receive a Heart Rock that responds to the stimulus with intimacy-centric relating."

as a part of your answer to the tribe members concern. I am curios to know the process steps to how to fore-give the rock back to the mother in this case?

I am also curios to know the process steps to how to receive the heart rock?

Does the hot seat has to recall his or her past experiences and express to the tribe members or does one tribe member has to act like the mother and ask hot seat to come up with a proactive response? Who is responsible to come up with a heart rock?

Thanks You Ed,
Your help is much appreciated sir. 

Thank you for raising these issues.

You can read about having sex and you can actually experience having sex.

Two very different things.

Same for reading about the Rocks Process and actually experiencing the Rocks Process.

I Want to Actually Do It

in Tribe with a Rock


November 4, 2019

Whole Hearted Book Launch

Dear Ed,

I’d like to inform you that the electronic version of my book has been launched today and is now available on Amazon.

The print version is intended to be released tomorrow, November 5th.

Best regards,


 - - - - -

Whole Hearted

Seven principles for
finding purpose, taking the leap,
& doing the best work of your life.

by Adnan Mirza
on Amazon

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings, insights and Seven Principles in your book.

Thank you for mentioning TTP and the work we do here.
November 2, 2019

Rich Content

Dear Ed,

Hope you are well.

I’m writing this to thank you so much for your Trading Tribe website, in particular the FAQ section  which is crammed with an incredible amount of free information that you have willingly shared to help and assist new people interested in trading.

I’ve read through the FAQ back to 2003 and there’s so much rich content which takes time to think about and digest. There is no doubt that your TT website has changed my life for the better and I wanted to give you that feedback. 

Thank you for acknowledging me and the work and the many contributors to FAQ.
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